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We have recieved this very special video from Thomas Beu, – it shows a male filamentosus behaviour towards a shrimp, – seeming very determined to perhaps steel the eggs from the shrimp.
[video]http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP7ldVxHSF4&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Interesting video.
They are predatory feeders and we have seen that they also learned how to find cory eggs and wait and eat them when they hatch. They do seem to stalk and wait when hunting or feeding. Were the shrimp eggs hatching or near to that point?
Everything I’ve been able to find out about them points to live food mostly.
Wonder, would this fish also eat decapsulated brine shrimp eggs?
This is a very remarkable video shot by Thomas Beu (Frankfurt/Germany). Not only that it shows a rather aggressive male filamentosus somehow fighting a shrimp as big as himself, but the real stage effect is not to be seen directly. Thomas Beu reported that it happened after the camera was put away:
The fish was not only trying to dislodge the shrimp from his own territory (as it seems at the first sight) but it really was trying to steal the eggs the shrimp was carrying beneath its body! After the camera was removed Thomas witnessed this to happen indeed! He hopes it will happen again and he will be able to catch it with the camera.
This is quite remarkable for two reasons: firstly, a Paro male can behave as aggressively as this and is not intimidated by such a fiercely looking invertebrate being with many legs. Secondly, we learn what is probably one of the main food of Paro’s in the wild: eggs (and young?) of shrimps. We always thought that shrimps may play an important role in the natural food of our fish, although most of the species of shrimps that are sold by the aquarium trade are not very well accustomed very soft, very acid blackwaters. But there must be other species living under these conditions that are not sold by the aquarium trade because there is no market for them. This little video seems to indicate that this might really be the case. But I admit that I did not know how big a desire of such food is to be found with the licorice gouramis!
Seeing this we realized that there is no category “behaviour” in our forum. Helene Schoubye acted at once: now we have it!
Tedsomd – I have not tryed decapsulated brine shimp eggs, but I have had some paroes who very eagerly fed on frozen lobster egs. You can buy these in frost, and they are quite a good fry food for f.inst apistogramma fry. My paroes liked them for sure.
Yes, paros canbe quite agressive, although this is rather predatory than agressive behaviour.
My P. cf. bintan Sentang female(not the male) is very territorial towards the Dicrossus she lives with. She chases them away for half a meter sometimes. The Dicrossus are fully grow adults. I supect her from biting off the male’s tail filaments.🙂 I think you are quite right, Bartian, – its not really agression. The shrimp also, if really threathened would likely not stay like that, – it could have fled very easily. Wouldnt it do that if threathened on its life ?
I have kept those red cherry shrimps (they are smaller than this amano-shrimp) with paros many times, and the result is always that the grown up shrimps stay there but they do not multiply, so no small shrimps are growing up.
But that the paro is going for the eggs is obvious and maybe living in sparse environment makes precisely egg-steeling a very good supply of food ?It appears to me paros are specialized shrimp-killers. I have the same experience you described: not a single young shrimp can make it to adulthood, although there are a lot of adult shrimp carrying eggs. The way they move and approach shrimps looks dedicated for hunting young shrimps.
Indeed, from an adult shrimp a paro could harvest a lot of eggs, so it would earn more food than when he would eat the hole shrimp.
[quote=”helene” post=1285]:)(…)But that the paro is going for the eggs is obvious and maybe living in sparse environment makes precisely egg-steeling a very good supply of food ?(…)[/quote]
Very good remark, Helene! This indeed is the problem for blackwater fish: a rather sparse, oligotrophic, nearly sterile environment. Normal food not abundant, so that the fish must detect something unusual a concentrated nutritive substance: the eggs of shrimps.
If this is the case, are there any suggestions as to what kind of shrimps may be beneficial for paros to live with? In the “Why are the Licorice Gouramis the way they are” by Martin Hallman, which is availible on the P-P website we can see such a sentence:
Licorice Gouramis are never found en masse in their native
waters, but they may occur in large numbers together with
shrimps in suitable places, such as beneath overhanging
turf or among the masses of small roots in holes in the
bank beneath trees.So the date of the recording probably isn’t the first time such a behaviour was observed. Nevertheless, I believe that these shrimps should be mentioned in some way by teams reaserching the Licorice gouramis, and one who is able and willing should look it up.
So the question is, are these shrimps mentioned somewhere and is it possible to introduce them into aquaristic trade?
That’s one of the remaining problems we have. I don’t know what is possible in the trade of the future but tzere are limitation set by commerce, This is one of the very good feature of the Parosphromenus aquaristics: Beginning with the fish and ending with the equipment we are very less dependant from the commercial trade than the main aquaristic modes.
We know that Parosphromenus feed heavily on shrimps in nature. But we obviously don’t receive those species up to now in the aquarium trade. And I don’t think that this is a matter of time only: The shrimp mode is not using the waters we need for Paros.
There have been some experiments with quite a few shrimp species available but nearly all of them failed because the water near to destilles water is improper for them all. Only one species was able to stand it for quite a long time, and that is Neocaridina parvidentata, a rather small greyish species that could multiply quickly. But is very rarely traded. Why? Because the aquarium trade concentrates on species for the bulk of aquarists as it concentrate on them with fish. Just as the Paros are only rarely traded because on cannot make money with them the same is valid for shrimps.
But Neocaridina parvidentata (I do not know any English or German name) is probably not the best companion for Paros, since in all communities we know they did not survive more than half a year. If the Paros have very small young, they are being eaten by the shrimps, and if the shrimps have young they are being eaten by the adult Paros. Nevertheless, it’s the only species available sometimes that stand such a water.
The conclusion is clear and I mentioned it already: Obvioulsy we do not know the right species of shrimps upt to now, at least: We do not have them.
What should we learn from this? The idea of constructing a nature-like living community tank for Paros is good an idea, but it is presently hardly to to realized. We should concentrate on breeding the rare Paros and watch their interesting and diversifeid behaviour instead of trying to build a community for which we don’t have the means to do it properly. You cannot imitate the huge peat body, the ever flowing fresh water stream, the bulk of tropical invertebrates, including infusoriae, herons, kingfishers. Ans the point is: You must not. You could produce healthy, lively fish with the reduced means of the aquarium structure. I have often seen that people do not realize the huge difference in the structure of an aquarium as compared with nature. We must try to imitate the natural conditions, but there are restrictions for it. Some are changing, some are rather stable. some are dependent from the offers of the trade, some are different in principle.
“Neocaridina parvidentata” are listed here in the states as “caridina parvidentata” not sure if the same but they are called “Malawa” shrimp, which they say prefer hard water and are considered one of the Suluwasi species which do require very hard water high pH.
BUT:
I know of breeders that keep them in normal soft water situations, and they are VERY productive. I will contact the people and see if they know the actual parameters where these are found… it is possible that they are NOT Suluwasi Lakes type shrimp, and even tolerate low pH. If necessary I will get a few and see what happens.Nearly everone (shrimpers) keep their water in a pH area of 6.6 – 7.4
That does not mean they are not low pH tolerant at all… those are the parameters the industry goes for as a generic for nearly all of the ornamental types… Malawa are a clean species not bred for any special traits yet.Malawa is close to the same word as Malawi which would be an African species but I suspect not so.
I can easily get some and try although I only know of 2 folks that keep them.. ha another project !!!
And there is also a Malaya species I. looking into… it is a caridina type shrimp.
As you can see from my pictures in the corresponding thread, I keep White Pearl shrimp (Neocaridina cf. zhangjiajiensis var. white) with my P. nagyi.
They are said to tolerate a ph-level around 6,0 – so I tried it. They now live in water with a ph-level of around 5,5 – and they do quite well.
I keep different kinds of freshwater shrimps in all my tanks with different fish species – and I highly appreciate them. They do a lot to keep the tanks clean – and if they are doing well, they are very reproductive ………. and the young provide a good food for anabantoids and blue perches.
Another shrimp species which is said to tolerate a low ph-level of about 5,2 is the Sri Lanka dwarf shrimp, Caridina s. simoni. I do not keep them yet because they are infrequently on offer – but I aim to buy some as soon as possible.
Ha ! found the white pearl shrimp… here across the pond, they are more often named white snowball shrimp(zhangjiajiensis var. white), and there is also a blue variety of the same species. Thank you, good info.
What I wrote on Neocaridina parvidentata is partly based on my own experience. Mainly on that of Benjamin Wilden (Germany). This shrimp is definitely not the ideal solution of the problem but it has proved to come nearer to it than others more often used in the hobby. With a Microsiemens/cm of often 10 to 30 (which equals a hardness of below 0.5, with carbon hardness 0.0) all the normal aquarium shrimps cannot live.
Besides, the informations that are given by the shrimp-lovers are ambivalent and partly wrong. They concentrate fully on their shrimps (as we do on our Paros) and are not interested in their capacity to tolerate extreme water conditions but to describe the ideal conditions for them. So the conclusion is as I said before: We do not have the right shrimps up to now. If some tolerate our values it’s a matter of compromise.
Agree totally. I keep several varieties of the ornamental shrimps and with a TDS as low as Paros need, it seems that they would have serious problems molting and any baby survival..except a small few that do seem to defy the “ideal parameters”
Still seems like an interesting project outside the hobby “rules”.
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