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//Hello everyone. I’m a newby here at the project & the forum. So I don’t know whether it is okay to straightaway start a new thread. Although I’ve checked that there if isn’t alreadya peat-thread I might have missed something. So in case you want to have this thread somewhere else, feel free to move it! – Kind regards, Michael.//
As I’m busy with setting up two to three little tanks for Betta tussyae and future paros,
I also read my way through the forum posts especially on methods. Here, vocabulary such as peat fibres and peat moss occur
regarding water preparation, filtration or covering the tanks ground in order to provide the fry with places to hide and feed.
So yesterday evening, after reading about the value of peat to our hobby, I decided to go for it as well (water preparation & ground material).
– only to think it over again reminding myself that I know how valuable wetlands and especially peat-bogs are as habitats and how important they
are as a sink or repository to carbon (dioxide) these days (“unfortunately, I’m working at the German Federal Environment Agency (UBA) compiling
(together with other colleagues) the annual German Greenhouse Gas Inventory), also calling to my mind again that I strcitly use peat-free plant
ground for my potted
indoor and outdoor plants.So standing in the pet shop yesterday, I was quite happy to find “100 per cent peat-free terrarium humus” (also free of fertilizer etc + sterilised)
with a pH between 5 to 6: Although its supposed to be used in terrrariums in first place, I thought to have found the proper alternative to
(i) give hiding spaces to coming fry, to (ii) keep the pH of my tank water well below 7 and to (iii) release even more humic acids to the water than
already provided by elder cones and beech leaves. Unfortunately, such humus metarial does not include to much long fibres and no mossy strcutures but
behaves more or less like “normal top soil” when put into water. So by now I have a bowl full of humus slurry that might not make its way to any tank
(Lets see how it looks like when afetr a day under water, though.)Nonetheless, I’m not quite sure that I will not try another shop today where I would surely get peat but listen to my conscience and to keep hands of it.
What do you think of this? Especially with paros (but also with other (endemic) fish coming from rather small areas all over the world) we often
discuss the issue of shrinking or already destroyed habitats (in the tropic regions) and the necessity of preservation breeding.
On the other hand, we seem to not care to much about peat-bogs and wetlands still being drained for agricultural purposes by hundreds of hectares each year
and peat layers of several centimeter thickness “harvested” even here in Germany with only about one millimeter of growth per year (in a well intact bog).I, for my part, was able to handle my aquaiums withou any peat (in filter or ground) by now. But now I want to start over with paros – and I hope they will
do fine – and spawn! – without this great “material”, too.I guess I will have to collect even more elder cones and maybe try some oak extract. But is there any natural and fibrous alternative to cover the tank ground
and to provide the fry with places to hide and feed?Michael
Hello Michael, and very welcome to this forum.
I think your post is in excatly the right place 🙂
And I also think what you are saying is really important, – you are completely right. We do concern ourselves with the survival and preservation of rare species of fish and worry about their habitats, and this should include a conciousness going much further as you say – and also be concerned with what we as aquarists consume in terms of decoration etc for tanks.
This is precisely also what we here try to do – becoming more aware and taking more responsibility. But things takes time.
I dont know so much about the issue of peat, but I can see your point, and I am sure this is a very important thing to consider as well as being concerned about the actual species.
Its always difficult though, since the material (such as peat) is being used and offered to many other different things, and the small amount one would use for paro tanks is so little.
It can even be reused for long times as far as I have learned.
But I think theres are many other obtions also if you want to not use peat. I dont use it so much for water preparation, but mainly for structure of the tank, hiding places etc. And as I say – tiny amounts which is reused.
But thank you for reminding us about this issue, and I hope there may be others who would like to join the discussion.I mainly use peat (in small amounts) for covering the glass tank floor. It looks a lot better than sand or gravel. You are completely right to say that’s kind of hypocritical! It’s better not to use peat when not strictly necessary.
For bringing down pH I prefer beach and oak leaves, which I also use as soil. To my experience, when I put in a layer of leaves and pour RO water in, pH doesn’t drop quick enough to prevent decomposition of the leaves. To start at a good pH I use small amounts of phosphoric acid to bring the pH to around 4, after which the leaves will keep it low.Hi bartian.
Thank you for the hint of starting with phosphoric acid. As I couldn’t really believe this would be possible, I just called my local pharmacy and to my surprise I can get 1 litre (unfortunately, no smaller packages available) of 96% sulphuric acid (though no phosphoric acid, but this shouldn’t matter) there without any obstacle. I only have to bring my ID as it is a hazardous good (“Gefahrgut” in German).
So I will have to refresh my chemistry knowledge from university to be on the save side and will start some pH-lowering tests with the tab-/rain-water mix I use for my tanks to see the effect.
It is quite clear that we cannot protest against the destruction of the peat swamps in south-east Asia and use peat in great quantities ourselves.
I have stopped using peat nearly at all. You could adjust the pH by phosphoric acid by using a few drops only and add the missing humine substances by leaves from beeches and oaks, alder-cones and Catappia-leaves.
The pH is not a value of ist own, but a means to suppress germs and unwanted bacteria. You can breed every species at higher pH (if it’s not exceeding 7.0, for the fish’s organism is adapted to a low pH) if you are able to keep the milieu germ-free. But it is nearly impossible to do so. So you have to lower the pH. It is of secondary importance by what means.
With plants it is quite different a story. There you need CO2; phosphoric acid is quite a different thing. But we speak about fish that are adapted to water with germ-concentrations as little as possible. Here you don’t need peat. Nature uses peat. In the aquarium you can dispose of it if there are reasons of the conservation of the peat swamps and bogs and moors to do so. And there are.
So Michael is quite on the right track, and Bartians advice is a good advice.
for every litre RO water is use in my Paroshpromenus tanks, two litres of clean water are spilled.
at the same time billions of people don’t have access to clean water.phosphate is of major importance to the world food supply, and we are running out of it.
but also the use of phosphate causes environmental problems. so why is phosphoric acid better then peat?there will always be a downside, whatever method you chose, the best we can do is keeping our resources and wastes as limited as possible.
That water isn’t spilled, it is fed back to the water cycle. The water we use here has absolutely nothing to do with drought in Africa and other countries. Also, saying billions when there are only 7 billion people around sounds somewhat exaggerated.
Phosphoric acid doesn’t destroy very rare habitat’s irreversibly. At the same time we use a lot less of it, so I think damage caused by it is a lot smaller than that of peat.
But I get your point, we should keep in mind the downside of whatever we do.
I use api ph down, and much more than a few drops. Their website says it’s sulfuric acid. My fish grew and bred well so this must not hurt them that bad, still is there a reason phosphoric acid is preferable?
[quote=”bartian” post=2685]That water isn’t spilled, it is fed back to the water cycle. The water we use here has absolutely nothing to do with drought in Africa and other countries. Also, saying billions when there are only 7 billion people around sounds somewhat exaggerated.[/quote]
1,1 billion people don’t have access to clean and safe drinking water. Drought is a different subject.
But I get your point, we should keep in mind the downside of whatever we do.
exactly!
@Jacob, sulphuric acid is fine to, in small quantities neither will have harmful effects.[quote=”Teunis” post=2684]…phosphate is of major importance to the world food supply, and we are running out of it.
but also the use of phosphate causes environmental problems. so why is phosphoric acid better then peat?
[/quote]Never really thought about the lack of phosphate so far. So thank you for your remark and reminder!
And you are right: There will always be a downside. (That’s why I raised this topic. And that is why I try to use as much rainwater as possible (not too big a problem with our small paro tanks, at least if you have a garden some distance away from the city.), collect alder “cones”, beech and oak leaves etc. on every walk, hike or bike trip :)…)
Natural means – als alder cones, beech and oak leaves – that could replace peat are very good, but often have a weak influence on pH only. But they deliver humid substances to the tank water, and that is nearly as necessary as the pH itself.
But our fish are accustomed to low pH-values by their evolutionary history. Again I repeat what I have said very often already: Not the pH is the decisice factor but the consequence it has: a low concentration of germs. That is the central point. Especially the eggs and larvae of our fish don’t stand the normal concentration of germs in a normal (“clean”) aquarium water. This concentration is a hundred or thousand times more than in nature, although everything looks clean.
The aquarist has only one means of influencing this markedly, and that is by lowering the pH. Which sort of acid you use is a secondary importance. Sulphuric acid is just as effective as other acids.
Perhaps this caution need not be voiced, but for the sake of the many new members on the forum adding acid sulfuric, phosphoric or any other acid will indeed be an appropriate option to lower the pH in the tank. However, the acid should not be added directly to the aquarium but to a container you will use to do water changes.
You are fully right, Bill. Only a few drops will normally suffice if the water is near to destilled water! The pH runs down very quickly indeed. Working in a fully inhabited tank is out! This must definitely be done outside, separately, and the effect must be measured and controlled every few drops of the acid!
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