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5 years 10 months ago #2693 by Teu­nis
Replied by Teu­nis on topic How to improve dis­tri­b­u­tion
in most fora its pos­si­ble to cre­ate restricted cat­e­gories to pre­vent the sit­u­a­tion that the fish end up in the wrong hands.

and if you are offer­ing fish it is not nec­es­sary to sell them to any­one who is inter­ested. you can (and should) ask more infor­ma­tion from the buyer before you decide to sell them (or not)

Greet­ings,

Teu­nis.

have a great day, or a good night.

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5 years 4 weeks ago #3719 by 7 Zwerge
Replied by 7 Zwerge on topic How to improve dis­tri­b­u­tion
Per­haps we could improve to tell each other when we make a longer jour­ney, or tell when we need a trans­fer? In the forum a thread or to the dis­trib­u­tors?

Me for exam­ple, I go about once a year to the North Sea, and come by train through Ham­burg.
If I would knew about 12 weeks before, I can plan the trip with a stop to give ordered fish to their new own­ers …

And if some­one knows that he/​she or some friends will go over sea they could tell?

I think, it’s worth to wait for those rare an spe­cific fish till the right way to trans­port them will be there …and we see that it’s most times a prob­lem to get those fish from the trade .…

with best regards,
Dorothee

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5 years 4 weeks ago #3720 by 7 Zwerge
Replied by 7 Zwerge on topic How to improve dis­tri­b­u­tion
Another aspect to make the dis­tri­b­u­tion even more com­pli­cated ;)

We, who are not breed­ing big­ger amounts of fish, like the good Paro breed­ers, we get one or two pairs of Paros … They spawn and we man­age to get the young­ster grow up …
we give them away and have now pairs of broth­ers and sis­ters … What’s about the gen pool? ;-)

with best regards,
Dorothee

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5 years 4 weeks ago #3721 by Peter Finke
Replied by Peter Finke on topic How to improve dis­tri­b­u­tion
What’s about the gen-​pool?

The ques­tion is jus­ti­fied, but the issue is over­rated, too.

Since 2005, some breed­ers exchange indi­vid­u­als of secured iden­tity (loca­tion!) at meet­ings. Even the exchange of of spec­i­mens of the same stock the have been grown at dif­fer­ent places with dif­fer­ent breed­ers add a cer­tain amount of secu­rity. At the first inter­na­tional meet­ing that we shall orga­nize at Ham­burg 2015 there is a pos­si­bil­ity to do this again. But iden­tity not only of species but of its orig­i­nal loca­tion must be cer­tain before­hand. Oth­er­wise the pro­ce­dure is likely to be con­trapro­duc­tive.

One could do this with com­mer­cially traded fish, too, although there is nearly never a given local­ity. But it is to be rec­om­mended with secure species deter­mi­na­tion only. That means, all Suma­tran­ian bintan-​variants should be excluded. For linkei or fil­a­men­to­sus or ornat­i­cauda it could be worth­while, not for bintan-​types.

On the other hand the fol­low­ing is to be taken seri­ous: The issue is over­rated. What we do, is arti­fi­cial breed­ing, i.e. we can, should and do exclude aber­rant or ill young indi­vid­u­als from fur­ther breed­ing any­way. In this respect the issue is blown-​up to a huge prob­lem, but it exists in nature only if the real gen-​pool has become very small. There is nobody who con­trols the repro­duc­tion; this is quite dif­fer­ent in our case. Most cases of com­plaints about genetic defects in breed­ing fish are due to mis­takes of the breeder. He is respon­si­ble; the issue of the “too small gen-​pool” is mostly an excuse for a bad care and con­di­tions not pro­vided as opti­mal as pos­si­ble.

See the fol­low­ing exam­ple which is really impres­sive: There was only once an import of P. quin­decim. All quin­decim we have all over the world refer to this import. There is one Ger­man breeder, Bern­hard Lukiewski from Berlin, who since the breeds quin­decim in high num­bers in the twen­ti­eth or so gen­er­a­tion. He does it with excel­lent care, feed­ing and knowl­edge. He never observed any signs of degen­er­a­tion in his fish. The point is impor­tant for nat­ural stocks, but highly over­rated for aquar­is­tic ones. Nearly all amounts to the skills and con­scious­ness of us, the breeders.
The fol­low­ing user(s) said Thank You: 7 Zwerge

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5 years 4 weeks ago #3722 by 7 Zwerge
Replied by 7 Zwerge on topic How to improve dis­tri­b­u­tion
Thank you for the com­pe­tent answer!
Yes, the exam­ple with the quin­decim is very impres­sive!

And, by the way I didn’t think about the expert breed­ers, I thought about begin­ners as me, who have two or four fish, and begin to give the off­spring away, the best by the project dis­tri­b­u­tion.

Com­par­ing with men and dogs, I was think­ing that then it would be nece­cary to take for exam­ple a male from one small stock and a female from another small stock.…

But implied, that we (the begin­ners, the experts know any­way!) take a good care for our fish and don’t set together ill fish-​parents, it’s good to hear that it’s already proved, that also a small aquar­is­tic pop­u­la­tion can stay healthy! :)

With my for­mer fish from the “hobby” I always had to look out, for exam­ple with the good old gup­pies from my friend, we always look out to get “fresh blood” so every­body is aston­ished, that we always have healthy offspring …

with best regards,
Dorothee

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5 years 4 weeks ago 5 years 4 weeks ago #3723 by Deepin peat
Replied by Deepin peat on topic How to improve dis­tri­b­u­tion
Get­ting the fish to G.B.,Norway, U.S. What comes to my mind is that this could be done pretty much the same way as the whole com­pa­nies do it. We would just need a lit­tle (or quite some, depend­ing on point of view)organisation. Once in a while we would need to make pub­lic (for the mem­bers of P-​P or pos­si­bly other Labyrinth fish assotiatons)offer of avail­able Paros and have some­one for each of the spe­cific coun­tries to col­lect the demans. Than the fish would be packed in Gor­don breath­ing bags one by one(Special bags made of a foil that is able to let car­bon diox­ide out and oxy­gen in. You only put in enough water for the fish to have a lit­tle space. Its per­fectly safe as you can pack each indi­vid­i­ual sep­a­rately and the water is not mov­ing nearly as much as with air so it is even less stres­full). And a big styro box would be sent by plane. This way you could send at least 100 Paros for one cargo cost and make ship­ments effec­tive. For those who are scared to send fish. Please be aware that if you pre­pare it well (pack­ing) and you give the boxes to cargo com­pany on the air­port, you exactly know how many hours this is going to take. Of course there may be prob­lems if the ship­ment is send wrong way and ends up delayed, but I have seen that done many times with fish from SA and Asia and I was unpack­ing the fish myself. If you send healthy a and prop­erly starved fish, with todays heat­packs its really ok. So if we would do this lets say every 12 year, it could work fine. Or if demands were colected per­ma­nently, it could be done every time the box would be full. Of course there would have to be some­one on each end who would be will­ing to pack and send or pick up and resend the fish. Sin­gle ship­ments of cou­ple fish will be always pos­si­ble by parcels, but it is and will always be expan­sive. If you buy a pair of wild Bet­tas from some of the trans-​shippers that import the fish from Asia to you, you would mostly pay like 70 USD and more than 12 of it is the ship­ping costs. I think we have to accept that.

As this way, no addresses would be revealed, only stocks + it would be an effi­cient way to get Paros to the other con­ti­nents too.

In fact, every­thing we know is only some kind of approx­i­ma­tion, because we know that we do not know all the laws as yet. There­fore, things must be learned only to be unlearned again or, more likely, to be corrected.Richard P. Feyn­man
Last edit: 5 years 4 weeks ago by Deepin peat.

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