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Paros in Italy

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5 years 2 months ago #3529 by T_​M
Paros in Italy was cre­ated by T_​M
Hello every­one

My name is Mas­simo Tavazzi, Ital­ian breeder always been fas­ci­nated by the beauty and behav­ior of small Paros.
I’ve bred in the past and today I’d like to go do it.
I am cur­rently a mem­ber of AIB (Ital­ian Asso­ci­a­tion Betta).
www​.aibetta​.it/
www​.face​book​.com/​a​s​s​o​c​i​a​z​i​o​n​e​i​t​a​l​i​a​n​a​b​e​t​t​a​?​r​e​f​_​t​y​p​e​=​b​o​o​k​m​a​r​k
Among the many activ­i­ties offered by AIB a few years ago was a project of preser­va­tion of wild betta species and other ana­ban­toid.
Reg­u­la­tion:
www​.aibetta​.it/​f​o​r​u​m​/​s​h​o​w​t​h​r​e​a​d​.​p​h​p​?​t​=​9857
Cen­sus:
www​.aibetta​.it/​f​o​r​u​m​/​s​h​o​w​t​h​r​e​a​d​.​p​h​p​?​t​=​10033
The main objec­tives of the project are to pro­mote coop­er­a­tion and infor­ma­tion exchange between lovers, man­ag­ing the map­ping of all strains with loca­tion and not in the project.
Per­sonal inter­est and other breed­ers towards Paros com­bined with the meth­ods of breed­ing man­age­ment with AIB stan­dards, nat­u­rally lead us to exclude the com­mer­cial chan­nel and to favor the exchange between indi­vid­u­als.
With this back­ground it becomes nat­ural to con­sult in an offi­cial way to your project, so ask­ing and offer­ing col­lab­o­ra­tion, con­cern­ing find­ing of sam­ples and their growth.
I would there­fore ask if there are cur­rently at the Ital­ian ter­ri­tory strains sur­veyed in your project and if you can find cou­ples from your asso­ciates, with the goal of col­lab­o­rate as AIB for breed­ing and main­te­nance of Paros in Italy.

Thank you for your atten­tion

Mas­simo

T_​M

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5 years 2 months ago #3530 by Peter Finke
Replied by Peter Finke on topic Paros in Italy
Dear Mas­simo, you are very wel­come with the Parosphromenus-​Project! Until now, there are not many Ital­ian mem­bers; please write to our web­mas­ter that she should send you their names and addresses.

I am very much in favour of your sug­ges­tion to pre­fer pri­vate ways of exchang­ing fish and ideas and exclude the com­mer­cial level as much as pos­si­ble; we really don’t need it (at least to far an extent) as far as Paros are con­cerned. This matches with my con­vic­tion that the com­mer­cial exploita­tion of the aquar­ium hobby bears many neg­a­tive aspects; the P-​P is a path towards a crit­i­cal debate that we need on it.

An impor­tant point of our project is to pre­serve pri­vately caught fish with secure loca­tions (= def­i­nite location-​forms of non-​mixed species) by breed­ing and pri­vate dis­tri­b­u­tion. Unfor­tu­nately, some­times such forms are nev­er­the­less lost and com­mer­cially traded fish replace them. But the project has a long-​term breath and starts anew when an expe­di­tion has been suc­cess­fully brought some forms home again.

We are proud to say that at least some species/​forms could be saved until now by this pol­icy, e.g. quin­decim, pahuen­sis, spec. Ampah and spec. Lundu (= soec. Sun­gai Stung­gang). Unfor­tu­natly, the true deiss­neri is (nearly) lost; there is one pair left only, reg­u­larly spawn­ing but no young are pro­duced. We hope that we are soon able to go to Bangka for some new pairs, for that species has never been traded at all. And it is urgent, since the pol­lu­tion of the habi­tats on Bangka is heavy and disastruous.

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5 years 2 months ago #3534 by T_​M
Replied by T_​M on topic Paros in Italy
Hello Peter

thanks for the wel­come.

Today I am firmly con­vinced that con­sumerism has partly ruined our pas­sion.
I remem­ber with plea­sure when 30 years ago it was all very tied to the exchange between enthu­si­asts and every­thing was the result of per­sonal expe­ri­ences.
Over time we have lost the patience to see grow projects related to their tanks, and remained only the need for all and now, for the half-​year turnover of the lay­out, and the most col­or­ful pos­si­ble, includ­ing fish.
Per­son­ally, I have always believed that it should start from strains with defined loca­tionin order to know as much as pos­si­ble the char­ac­ter­is­tics of breed­ing, try­ing to keep in the time etho­log­i­cal char­ac­ter­is­tics of founder fish.
And to do this I have always con­sid­ered it essen­tial to have well-​sized and mature tanks, in order to find a nat­ural food for the fish. Try­ing as much as pos­si­ble to feed adults with live food and grow young with what they find in the tank with­out the use of brine shrimp.
Also because the real suc­cess is not the event of repro­duc­tion, but the con­tain­ment of births and in favor of qual­ity in the growth of the fish.
This is the man­age­ment that we are pur­su­ing with AIB as our main­te­nance project, start­ing from try­ing fish with a defined loca­tion, keep­ing track of every detail of breed­ing, repro­duc­tions, trans­fer of own­er­ship, and ensur­ing for each species a main breeder and a backup breeder.
We believe that this man­age­ment is the right way to ensure the suc­cess of breed­ing and try to cre­ate an exam­ple of how a nat­ural breed­ing can give more ben­e­fits than a higher human inter­ven­tion.
My per­sonal desire and that of the staff AIB is try to cre­ate a group of Ital­ian breed­ers for Paros, in a sim­i­lar way to what we are doing with betta and their dif­fer­ent com­plex.
I am there­fore con­vinced that the pos­si­bil­ity to coop­er­ate with all the par­tic­i­pants in PP may be a fur­ther step in the con­struc­tion of what I believe a com­mon goal, namely the inter­na­tional exchange of infor­ma­tion and fish as opposed to inten­sive fish trade, often grown between the antibi­otics in farm.
really a plea­sure to talk about it.

Greet­ings to all

Massimo

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5 years 2 months ago #3535 by Peter Finke
Replied by Peter Finke on topic Paros in Italy
Dear Mas­simo, I am admir­ing your firm and con­scious crit­i­cal think­ing, and I wish you and your friends the very best. This — con­cen­trat­ing on the roots of the hobby and oppos­ing its being dom­i­nated by val­ues of the mar­ket — is essen­tially what I think is the path towards the future.

Your rules for the tanks are — may I say — a bit rigid; I am in favour of them but they are hardly to be real­ized fully with Paros. I do not know any spe­cial­ist for these fish who is able to do with­out Artemia, although it would be fine if one could dis­pense oft it. But this is not cen­tral to your main point. Most cer­tainly, Paros are a won­der­ful group to learn a max­i­mum inde­pen­dancy for the hobby from the mar­ket.

Go on! If we can, we shall try to help you! Peter

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5 years 2 months ago #3536 by T_​M
Replied by T_​M on topic Paros in Italy
Hello Peter,
Thank you for your sup­port.

I believe that the true teach­ing had in years is hav­ing patience in pur­su­ing their projects in com­pli­ance with the require­ments of the fish bred us.
Regard­ing my man­age­ment guide­lines, start­ing from the assump­tion that the lim­i­ta­tion of a “tank sys­tem” lead­ing of fact to a selec­tion not desired in the prog­eny of fish founders, try to recre­ate the most pos­si­ble the cor­rect man­age­ment sys­tem, includ­ing of sea­sonal vari­a­tions and feed­ing with live food, I believe can safe­guard­ing a proper keep­ing of the strains with defined loca­tion.
Regard­ing the use of brine shrimp with the fish fry, how­ever its use is valid, but often I have obtained excel­lent results exclu­sively from tanks fully ripe, densely planted with many algae and with the pres­ence of many nat­ural microor­gan­isms.
Obvi­ous that this mea­sure is asso­ci­ated with the desire to make a hypo­thet­i­cal nat­ural selec­tion in the tank, with the goal of sav­ing no more than 30% of the fish fry, sav­ing only the strongest, so try to keep the genetic her­itage orig­i­nal, lim­it­ing the drifts that “tank sys­tem” forced pro­duces.

Thank you for your atten­tion.

Massimo

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5 years 2 months ago #3537 by Peter Finke
Replied by Peter Finke on topic Paros in Italy
Dear Mas­simo, full sup­port and affir­ma­tion.

As far as breed­ing is con­cerned, we have a clear ten­dency towards your sug­ges­tions. But: It is nec­es­sary that at least some breed­ers try to breed spe­cial species/​forms from time to time in greater num­bers. Oth­er­wise we could not sat­isfy the wish of begin­ners to receive these fish.

A spe­cially suc­cess­ful form of breed­ing is prac­tised by or friend Bern­hard Lukiewski (Berlin). He has focussed his breeding-​system on a few fish only, among them only one species of Parosphromenus (P. quin­decim). He could offer fish of any age at any time. There has been no aspects of degen­er­a­tion, although all is done from a sin­gle pair about 15 years ago. in other cases breed­ing has been proved to become extremely dif­fi­cult from the third or fourth gen­er­a­tion onwards. But I sup­pose this has been due to mis­takes (less water chang­ing, food prob­lems, neg­li­gance) which the breed­ers were respon­si­ble for, too.

In gen­eral, your ideas match mine grosso modo. I wish you full suc­cess in Italy.

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