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Increas­ing UK species base?

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5 years 7 months ago #3995 by helene
Replied by helene on topic Increas­ing UK species base?
To Russ.

This sit­u­a­tion is what hap­pens all the time, both in UK — Den­mark, and also Ger­many. It is not as if the sit­u­a­tion of bying though shops are any bet­ter here.
There are excep­tions such as this recent import of p.phoenicurus, — it hap­pens very rarely.

When I find parosphromenus in my local shops in Copen­hagen I can never get a loca­tion, or if there is a loca­tion its most likely inacu­rate. Or the fish are not what they are said to be. Lately they have had p.gunawani (not!) and p.deissneri (not!) They some­times even have p.deissneri, with the loca­tion Bangka (not!) … it is really dif­fi­cult. I go every time to check, but I dont bye any­more unless its really really clear to me what species it is.

The import of p.phoenicurus in sep­tem­ber in Ger­many was very excep­tional. I would say though that iden­ti­fy­ing p.phoenicurus with­out local­ity is pos­si­ble, — it is a very remarable fish with some clear mark­ings which seper­ates it from other species. (see our species index)
And if it was in UK at the same time as the import in Ger­many, there could be good chances that it is p.phoenicurus.
How­ever, I must say, I have also expe­ri­enced that shops have a ten­densy to sud­denly have the same species, as if when one import is cre­at­ing a lot of atten­tion, such as the phoeni­cu­rus, — then the next time my shop gets fish its likely to be named as the last ‘pop­u­lar’ import. And often isnt. For exam­ple sud­denly there were p.gunawani all over, — now its p.phoenicurus (actu­ally right now they have phoeni­cu­rus and deiss­neri, I should prob­a­bly go and have a look :) )

Liv­ing in Den­mark to me prob­a­bly resem­bles a lit­tle bit liv­ing in UK, — I have to go to Ham­burg, — prob­a­bly the plane to Lon­don would be faster, — but it is a lot bet­ter for me to get fish through per­sonal con­tacts there than keep­ing on try­ing my luck in my local shops.

So I agree with you, and with John, we should see if there is a way to cre­ate not only some­thing which could per­haps help here and now one time (at the inter­na­tional meet­ing) but per­haps also a more last­ing struc­ture within the project.
We have con­nec­tions to for exam­ple Poland and Litu­a­nia as men­tioned in the last Newslet­ter, where more peo­ple have joined the Project, and are form­ing a group help­ing each other, — I think it could be very rel­e­vant in UK too.
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5 years 7 months ago #3996 by Peter Finke
Replied by Peter Finke on topic Increas­ing UK species base?
A flash­light only:

We had for the first time ever abaout 500 true P. phoeni­cu­rus by com­mer­cial import in Ger­many. The import com­pany asked the Suma­tran­ian exporter to send some hun­dreds of the same species a sec­ond time; they responded: OK, we will.

Now the fish have arrived, again best con­di­tion, but no P. phoeni­cu­rus (from loca­tion Langgam); this time it’s P. spec. blue line from Sugai Tunkal (the loca­tion of “blue line”, a bintan-​like vari­ant).

What do we learn? It’s a mat­ter of game/​chance/​fate what they really ship. The dis­tinc­tions we make are of no impor­tance to them. Paro = Paro.

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5 years 7 months ago #3997 by helene
Replied by helene on topic Increas­ing UK species base?
Have been think­ing about this a lit­tle, and a few thoughts :

The Cen­sus is really impor­tant in the Parosphromenus Project, and the aim is to fol­low the sta­tus of each species. This is the way to get the over­all pic­ture of how any species is doing in pri­vate stocks. Sec­ondary it gives the oppor­tu­nity to see where off spring is, but this is only sec­ondary.
To have a seper­ate Cen­sus would in my opin­ion not be good, — it would risk becom­ing con­fus­ing and unstruc­tured.
It would be much bet­ter if many more from UK took part in it, — and per­haps we could ask Ben­jamin Wilden if it was pos­si­ble to indi­cate which coun­tries are involved, just by adding ini­tials of coun­try. Then it was pos­si­ble to see who was based in UK.
But I think that we should be care­ful to keep the orig­i­nal pur­pose for the Cen­sus seper­ate from any lists of breed­ers or off spring.

But another thing is, — that ini­tially when we started this home­page we had the inten­tion of mak­ing a ‘mem­bers map’, for excatly the pur­pose which John is men­tion­ing, — that it would be pos­si­ble for mem­bers to see where other mem­bers live nearby.
To make this map became very dif­fi­cult because some peo­ple write their adress, some dont, — some say yes its all­right it can be seen pub­lic, some dont want that. And with so many coun­tries it became really con­fus­ing. So I asked that we stopped it this way.

But this doesnt mean that I dont have maps of mem­bers, — I have just split them up in smaller areas, and they are not pub­licly avail­able. But it is quite pos­si­ble to make it so that a speci­fik group of user can access a par­tic­u­lar map.

At present, I do have a UK map :) … and I can make it so that it can be vis­i­ble to a speci­fik group of users (UK mem­bers ? ) It is also quite pos­si­ble to use this map as an infor­ma­tion ‘tool’ — any­thing could be writ­ten in these maps, — it can be anony­mous and say 1 per­son is liv­ing here, — or it can say name, adress, — you could even use it to enter who has what species — .
The prob­lem with it now, is that for exam­ple in our adress list I have 22 mail adresses, — but only about 6 or 7 with adresses that could be put into a map.
If such a map should work, there would have to be some guide­lines around it, — and it is of course also a work to be done. But I would be happy to help if you wanted to make it.

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5 years 7 months ago #3998 by jalmj
Replied by jalmj on topic Increas­ing UK species base?
I agree that it would not be good to have more than one cen­sus. But ide­ally THE cen­sus should at least include the City and Coun­try in which the stock was held and the abil­ity (restricted to mem­bers of the Paro project) to con­tact that per­son through this site’s Pri­vate Mes­sage facil­ity. Cur­rently some of those paro friends respond­ing to the cen­sus may have dif­fer­ent Paro Project ‘Names’.
I have no quar­rel with the cur­rent ‘Search­ing for fish’ facil­ity, but it would not nec­es­sar­ily help me iden­tify, for exam­ple, how many species may be avail­able to me within an hours drive from Ham­burg on a given day if I was plan­ning to visit with the aim of bring­ing back stock for other UK based Paro friends.
How fan­tas­tic would it be to have a ‘liv­ing’ (Real Time)census, where I could note, for exam­ple, last nights spawn­ing of my P. Linkei ;-)
and track their devel­op­ment through to num­bers of juve­niles and then dis­tri­b­u­tion? Again, this is not meant to detract from the impor­tance of our twice yearly cen­sus, but rather to rein­force both the urgency of our projects aims and ambi­tions, and the suc­cesses that we enjoy.

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5 years 7 months ago #3999 by helene
Replied by helene on topic Increas­ing UK species base?
:) yes, that would be nice, — but we have talked about this before — and its really dif­fi­cult to make a trust­wor­thy list like that, — because it has to be com­pletely reli­able.
Its not much fun if you look at the list and see some­one hav­ing reported a lot of off­spring but for­got to report that its half a year ago.
Which is the kind of things that hap­pens with this kind of online things.
But the more ideas the closer we could get to cre­at­ing some­thing which works even­tu­ally.

I am very aware of the fact that our pri­vate mes­sag­ing is not at all opti­mal, — I should see if I could make it bet­ter, — I am sure there are ways in which it could be much more flex­i­ble, its just not very easy :blink:
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5 years 7 months ago #4000 by jalmj
Replied by jalmj on topic Increas­ing UK species base?
To be fair, I think that you, Peter Finke and the other Senior Mem­bers on the Project do a great job in keep­ing this site a hugely valu­able and acces­si­ble resource. That we can debate how to move things for­ward with­out fear of cen­sure is an indi­ca­tion of how pro­gres­sive the Project is. :)
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