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Aquafish Northeim: large-​scale order for P. ornat­i­cauda possible

  • chrisne84
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2 months 4 weeks ago #6027 by chrisne84
chrisne84 cre­ated the topic: Aquafish Northeim: large-​scale order for P. ornat­i­cauda possible
Hello,

because of the last cen­sus I want to talk about my expe­ri­ence with aquafish.
Because of order­ing Sp. vail­lanti there, I had some con­ver­sa­tion by mail with the owner and I reported about the PP. He is inter­ested to help find­ing Parosphromenus for us.
I red our old dis­cus­sions in the igl-​forum and found out that aquafish imported ornat­i­cauda 10 years ago together with ruine­mans.

Yeste­day he told me he could order ornat­i­cauda from a dealer in Sin­ga­pur. The prob­lem is that he has to order about 200300 fish. I don’t know the price yet.
He asked me how much fish we could take in the project.

I want you to ask if we want to place an order? If every ger­man mem­ber would take around 5 to 10 fish it could work.
What do you think?
I could go on work­ing on this source.
The meet­ing in Sep­tem­ber could be a chance to give ornat­i­cauda to other euro­pean mem­bers.

Best regards
Chris

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  • Peter Finke
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2 months 3 weeks ago 2 months 3 weeks ago #6029 by Peter Finke
Peter Finke replied the topic: Aquafish Northeim: large-​scale order for P. ornat­i­cauda possible
Chris, you have the best in mind for our project, I see it. Presently, we have no ornat­i­cauda in our tanks. Our expe­ri­ence with breed­ing them is among the poor­est of all Parosphromenus. We should really try to advance our kon­wledge of that fish which is still a rid­dle to us in many respects. But there are some counter-​arguments to your sug­ges­tions:
1. I con­tacted Aquafish more than ten years ago with regard to that first import of ornat­i­cauda. They were entirely unable to pro­vide the right water con­di­tons for them; they used the Northeim tap water (I knwo it because I lived in Göt­tin­gen south of that lit­tle town). Most fish died soon, some lived long but were irre­versely dam­aged. They may have learned by now, but they are traders with a short expe­ri­ence in fish that look nice but are unsuited for the nor­mal aquar­ist.
2. We have imports of ornat­i­cauda nearly every year. Thou­sands of young of the recent gen­er­a­tion are caught, kept alive to an unknown per­cent­age for days or weeks in pools or con­crete tanks with unsuited waters and exported in the world, to great an extent to Europe. If the fish are offered, nearly all greater importers in our coun­tries will offer them in some weeks time. Among them are more expe­ri­enced deal­ers than Aquafish. Ruine­mans for instance, or Glaser, or Aquar­ium Diet­zen­bach.
3. The Ger­man mem­bers of our project are a large part of the whole, but are surely not to be per­suaded to take ten ornat­i­cauda each from a doubt­ful trader. They know that they have to wait for a lit­tle time, and this species will be avail­able at the big retail­ers, too.
4. At that time about ten years ago a Ger­man retailer inno­cent of these fish ordered a thou­sand of them. Some hun­dreds werde dead when arriv­ing, oth­ers died the days after, and only then he cried for help. A friend tried to help him, and indeed saved about a hun­dred fish, but that’s not a sin­gle event. Nearly every two years espe­cially ornat­i­cauda is traded in huge amounts and kept to death in the same amounts in some weeks or months.
5. What is the con­clu­sion of that? The best of our breed­ers should try agian, no doubt, to learn waht even they have not solved until now: the rid­dle of that species. So we should be alert to see it on the lists of the expe­ri­enced and con­scious Euro­pean importers. But it’s not a species for all, and it’s a bad and wicked busi­ness one should not be a part of. Aquafish may have learned some lessons in the mean­time. Per­haps they are now among the oth­ers con­scious of the prob­lem. I hope so.
Last Edit: 2 months 3 weeks ago by Peter Finke.

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2 months 3 weeks ago #6030 by chrisne84
chrisne84 replied the topic: Aquafish Northeim: large-​scale order for P. ornat­i­cauda possible
Dear Peter,
I under­stand what you are talk­ing about. I saw a chance to get a new gen­er­a­tion of ornat­i­cauda for the PP. If there is a chance to get ornat­i­cauda from the expe­ri­enced deal­ers you men­tioned, of course it is the bet­ter way. There is also big eco­nom­i­cally dan­ger for aquafish too.
I didn’t know that ornat­i­cauda is so dif­fi­cult to han­dle for trans­port.
But I guess it is nearly the same for other Paros. A lot of fish will die on the way through the world.
That’s an crit­i­cal aspect of our pas­sion.

I will report to aquafish that we decided to find ornat­i­cauda in another way. Espe­cially because of the uncer­tainty you men­tioned.

Maybe ornat­i­cauda will be avail­able at the big­ger deal­ers soon. Hope­fully.

Kind regards
Chris

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2 months 3 weeks ago #6031 by chrisne84
chrisne84 replied the topic: Aquafish Northeim: large-​scale order for P. ornat­i­cauda possible
Sup­ple­ment:
I wrote to aquafish that we are not inter­ested in a big order. Nev­er­the­less he will go on try­ing to get ornat­i­cauda in smaller quan­tity.
As he told me aquafish was renamed into aquafish Northeim, was over taken by him and moved into big­ger halls in 2009. There­fore the new aquafish has noth­ing to do with the old sit­u­a­tion.
He told me, that he would not offer this pos­si­bil­ity if he wouldn’t dare to do this.

The dealer in Indone­sia wrote to him today: “I am very sorry I am still search­ing for Ornat­i­cauda, I asked the Sup­plier for wild fishes they said now the loca­tion of this fish is always flood very hard to get the fish. If any good news about this fishes I will inform you soon.“

Let’s see what will hap­pen to this possibility.

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2 months 1 week ago #6038 by 7 Zwerge
7 Zwerge replied the topic: Aquafish Northeim: large-​scale order for P. ornat­i­cauda possible
One remark to our import by Ruine­mans of Ornat­i­cauda: As you all remem­ber, the fish first were not able to be deliv­ered, because they all had odium. They “healed” them and sold them than. I remem­ber, that Peter said, after we posted fotos, that they were very small and weak.

Even Bernd in Ham­burg didn´t suc­ceed with breed­ing them, per­haps they were already ster­ile.

And I think we should think about the com­mer­cial import­ing of our fish — trans­port stress, wrong water para­me­ter …

I think, the best we can hope from com­mer­cial trade is to get a pair, which pro­duces off­spring. Many of the wild caught fish do that once at the begin­ning.

If these off­spring can pro­duce also off­spring and we man­age to dis­trib­ute them — the story ends lucky and we see the suc­cess in our cen­sus…

I have very old fish — now on to 10 years about — (still no Paros) — now I see that they are grown old man and ladies …like humans.

But nearly all wild caught labyrinth fish seem to have no more than one or two years … what are your expe­ri­ences? My old­est two Spaerichtys sela­ta­nen­sis are about 5 years old … but they have been 8 .…

One of my lessons here from is: trav­el­ling is big stress for our fish. We should reduce fish trav­el­ling as much as pos­si­ble. One longer trans­port is enough for one fish life (even with good water). Trav­el­ling reduces life-​time of fish extreme.

So: look this time, that you organ­ise the fish exchange at Ham­burg in for­ward! Not to bring fish, nobody needs there! With Bernds fish there is no prob­lem there, because he and his fish are “at home” there!

with best regards,
Dorothee

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2 months 1 week ago #6040 by Peter Finke
Peter Finke replied the topic: Aquafish Northeim: large-​scale order for P. ornat­i­cauda possible
It is often the case that a pair which is breed­ing well will pro­duce off­spring that breeds still bet­ter in the next gen­er­a­tion.
Al our expe­ri­ences with ornat­i­cauda are diff­fer­ent. There were very few cases of pairs breed­ing suc­cess­fully or even good, but the next gen­er­a­tion failed again. There must be a fac­tor unknown to us hith­erto respon­si­ble for that neg­a­tive series.
Surely, the stress of trade fish could be enor­mous. We should not engage in that busi­ness mor than absolutely nec­es­sary.
By the way, the old­est Paro i know about was a deiss­neri male (true deiss­neri!) by mas­ter breeder Gün­ter Kopic. The fish still dis­played and tried to breed aged 8 years. Most Paros do not reach that age by far because of less intense care and water not suited best.

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