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Hey Everybody,
as you may have red in the latest newsletter (thank you Peter Finke for including the topic) there is an owner of an P. spec. “Blue Line” with an forked ventral fin out there. That’s me!
I got the fish around half a year ago, as part of two pairs of wildcaught “P. deissneri”. By the time I didn’t even have a clue what Parasphromenus was. I kept them in a tank together with Hyphessobrycon amandae and a few dwarf shrimp, in conditions not quite suitable for Paros or at least not suitable for breeding them. From the start on the “mutated” fish have been the dominant male, favoured by the females and soon started protecting his cave filled with eggs/larvae once every two weeks. Unfortunately no larvae made it to the free-swimming phase because of the bad conditions (high pH, high carbonate hardness (CH?)). Never the less he had a stunning phenotype and great nursing-instincts all the way.
After some time I sadly lost one female…At the time I’ve done a lot of internet research and soon became aware of my mistakes concerning the way I kept the fish. After a while I registrated for the Paro-Project and got in touch with Peter Finke.
On his advice I decided to transfer the left female and the other male without the physical defect into a new tank. They’ve been in there for only about one month and there are at least 14 “little ones” swimming happily around, catching infusoria. But I’m getting sidetracked here!!! 😉Despite all the happiness It’s still quite frustrating seeing the “mutated” male swimming up and down in his tank, searching for a partner. What leads me to the main point:
[b]
What is your opinion on this topic?Would you use the male with the gabled ventral for breeding?[/b]
Because I maybe the worst aquaristic fotographer ever, I just got one hilarious bad fotograph
and a video of the both mails fighting, short after I got them
Greatings,
LennartFirstly I woul ask myself if the forked tail is a result of genes, or some incident in the childhood. It may be, that this was made be damaging the fin ray.
Second, there is a question of the species. They look quite harveyi-sh to me.
If you look at p.harveyi the space between the blue band in the caudal fin and the outer rim of the fin is bigger. I dont think this is p. harveyi.
Mine, and Martins fish are clearly different. The tail stripe is much thinner.
This has similar fins to P. nagyi, with the P. harveyi’s body. (I used photos from the site for comparison)
I just noticed I placed this Topic in “Species”, it may would better fit with “Breeding”! But anyway, I’m happy getting different opinions on the species too. I really don’t like beeing lost with “Blue line” (perhaps Sumatra/Jambi, as estimated by PF).
Thank you bartian,
the “normal” male just started his first attemp of reproducing with his partner underneath some Hydrocharis, when the other male came around and started the fight. At one moment they were in the very sense of the world “touth to touth”. It was a unique experience that took for about an hour.Looking at the fin I would be more apt to believe it to be fin damage at an early age rather than a mutation. I would attempt to breed the male and see if it is truly a mutation … or not. The worst that could happen might be that you have to destroy some fish or insure that they no longer reproduce. Both males have beautiful coloring.
I have moved the topic into the category Breeding 🙂
Regarding what species, – Sverting, I do not agree really. P. nagyi has much shorter ventral fins, with a dark spot. And certainly in this attitude the males would have shown the typical nagyi totally brown colour.
As for harveyi, in my opinion harvey has a rather longish and a bit more slim body, – and again the black in the tail is wider. But there are similarities also I agree.I dont know if I understand what you mean by ‘being lost with Blue Line 🙂 as you wrote, – ? Blue Line is as far as I know extremely attractive and beatiful. Did you read this post ?
https://parosphromenus-project.org/en/forum/3-Species/1352-blue-line.htmlphoto of p. nagyi
and p. harveyi
About the tail … I cant remember quite which fish it was, but I know that I once had the same occurring with a fish … you know 🙂 it might actually have been a guppy :woohoo: … but the thing is I remember the tail was split in the same way, and I wondered if this would continue on in generations, – and I did as Little is suggesting, I tried anyway, thinking it would never be any worse than I would just have to not give these offspring away.
Actually what I did find was that it did continue on in generations, – some offsprings actually had it. Not all, but a few did have the same ‘fault’.
Of course, I dont know, – theres is also the chance its a damage from early life. But if its genetic I would say theres no way to tell that it will not show up, – maybe not immidiately, but if the ‘fault’ is brought on to later generations, – I think theres a chance of that happening unfortunately.Good morning!
Ok I see I totally didn’t make my self clear about wich fin I ment. 😆
The split tail fins are a result of the fight and I think they are healed by now.I ment the “Bruest-fins” (Ventrals!?). If you take a closer look you will see one of them splits up into two filaments!
But you may get a better look at it in the video, in fullscreen, at around 0:55 (bottom right male).
@ Helene:
Thank you moving the topic, I’ll be more carefull next time.Yes I’ve fallowed that “discussion”. No argue, I really adore my fish and love seeing their offspring grow up, but I’m also unhappy about not knowing the location they are from. I guess at some time, when they are all gown up I will have a problem of space. I’m a student and really limited by money and space! So who would take some undetermined fish from me? Maybe the aquaristic shop… but would that be a good thing?
Regarding the split fin, – the remarks I made would really go for any fault which may have a genetic cause, – whether its one or the other doesnt really matter. If its a genetic fault, (which theres a chance it is if the fish is born with it) – then I think theres a risk it may give it on to offspring, and in that case I actually think its a pity to breed it.
So it doesnt really matter if its one or the other.Regarding the ‘blue line’ problem. Well, many, or most of the fish you buy in shops is without location, – I f.ex. have p.parvulus – bought in a shop, – and without a doubt parvulus. There are also slight differences in this species after where they come from, but I dont know where mine come from. They still belong to one of the most beatiful species in my opinion 🙂
And the blue line – I understand your problem, but still I think excatly the blue line (s) are so beatiful and different from other species, and it has not been so much around in the last years I think, so to have it and help us hold on to this particular sp.species is really valuable.Thank you helene for the kind words concerning the “Blue lines”.
So out of experience it’s a “no” from you for breeding with it?!
Thank’s for your opinion.
@Sverting: Sorry I missed your comment there! Assuming it’s a genetic defect not an injury; would you breed with it?No, I would not breed with it, I would give it a small tank with a few shrimps and a cave 🙂
You mention space being a problem also, so that might solve it a little bit 🙂But the blue line sp species you have, I would be rather proud of having it, –
At the moment no one has mentioned having it in our last Census, (and we should really have it there I think) and although theres yet no prober species description and the name is not ‘proper’ and so forth as Peter describes, – in my opinion its a really interesting area to investigate.
A lot of the fish in the aquaristic shops are indeed sp. something anyway. At least yours could be a continuation of the same sp.species 🙂 ..Well, I understand your feelings too, just being positive .. and they are fantastic fish.
That’s more or less the tank his in right now.. unless it’s bigger then my actual Paro-tank 😉
Wow the census-fact suprised me!
By the way is there any topic/discussion/place trying to give an overlook about the “Blue line” types yet? Would be pretty interesting seeing the different characteristics and perhaps start an approach of grouping them… I guess there are a few fotos out there showing “Blue lines”!?
-> Oh yes I’m a human, I’m trying hard to put everything in labled boxes!
Well, I dont really think there is such a place, – we have started here to describe it under ‘other forms’ – but its very short untill now.
I would suggest that if you have had some help identifying your fish from Peter or other with more experience, and they say its sp. blue line (which i think also from looking at the photoes of your fish and comparing with the describtion is likely) – then I would suggest to Peter that we may document your fish well 🙂 photoes, describtion, and put it in the section under ‘other forms’.
Your fish has some ‘harveyi’ like signs, – which is what is described under ‘other forms’ – but not the black in the tail bit, which I also mentioned, – but it has many of the beatiful features such as p. harveyi.We can only do whatever we can trying to document the species, – but maybe in future more will turn up and we might be able to compare. To me it seems that this whole area and business with the ‘blue liners’ from Sumatra has got to be investigated and described somehow, – they are so beatiful. This also goes for the p. sp. sentang ..
I am of course only talking for myself, I will have to talk to Peter about this, – there is quite a lot of things regarding this which is a bit difficult to understand, and I might be overlooking something 🙂 ..
But … 🙂 take some really good photoes !
That would be great.
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