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Sounds like a plan.
In the meanwhile I will borrow a good fotocamera, clean my panes and go on a fotosafari! It might take a while 😛[quote=”Lennart F.” post=2166]
By the way is there any topic/discussion/place trying to give an overlook about the “Blue line” types yet? Would be pretty interesting seeing the different characteristics and perhaps start an approach of grouping them… I guess there are a few fotos out there showing “Blue lines”!?-> Oh yes I’m a human, I’m trying hard to put everything in labled boxes![/quote]
Indeed Lennart. Wouldn’t it be possible to admire and respect these wonderfull Paro’s without giving them a name?
Due to this philosophical approach, I omitted to respond to a suggestion of Peter in his interesting message about Blue Line. Helene already referred to that discussion. After having described 3 different fish all called Blue line, Peter wrote:
Apart from the fact that the mixture of fish caught in different river systems is definitely wrong, we cannot – at present – hope to reveal the “right identity” behind the so-called Blue lines. To all our knowledge all of them come from Sumatra and there is never a harveyi or a species from Kalimantan mixed between them. All we can do is to separate the different Blue lines and take them as Blue line 1, Blue line 2, and so on. As far as we know there is no well-known species behind, only (perhaps) bintan. And we can say the following: If there is at all a single species (or two) behind the label “Blue line”, all are from Jambi/Sumatra. That is for certain (at least as our present-day-knowledge is concerned).
I have put one phrase in bold characters myself. I’m still unexperienced and unable to distinguish small details when comparing different P. sp. Blue line and/or P. bintan. But if Peter took pictures of the Blue line’s he had, Helene would be able to document 3 different Blue line‘s. Perhaps it would even be better to call them different forms of P. bintan – are there any P. bintan without blue lines ?
By the way: I very liked to see your video of the fighting males Lennart.
Grtz,
S.I really should have put a winking smiley behind the “labled boxes!”-sentence…
For sure I can enjoy my Paros without knowing their exact designation. That’s why I bought them in the first place! I’m really just curious of seeing different Bintan types next to each other and was wondering if after all the documentation, going on in the PP and the igl, there isn’t already a webpage for different Bintan phenotypes.
…and by all means, I just didn’t noticed how recent the “Blue line”-dicussion took place. Sorry :dry:
Still, thank you for liking my vid!
Helene, you might move this back to “Species” now. Just kidding!
But serious; I guess nobody here would have bred with my “mutated” male. Therefor the main question is answered. I give it a tick.I am back from lecturing at a foreign university.
And I am happy about the development of our Forum. In recent time the discussions have become more lively and more substantial. Very good!
As the fish without a clear location are concerned: That’s one of the problems of Paro-aquaristics. If I see our latest censuses the share of fish without location has risen again. There were some years (especially 2008/2009) when Horst Linke made his investigative tours on Sumatra and detected spec. Danau Rasau (now gunawani), spec. Langgam (now phoenicurus), and quite some others (specc. Dua, Sungaibertam, Pematunglumut, etc.) when the share of our fish with location rose sonsiderably. We interpreted that as our stock becoming more valuable; the share of the traded fish went down. But we were unable to breed all those forms, some having come in very small numbers: four or five fish; if one of them is ill (maybe the only female), then your prospects fall considerably.Today, the share of traded fish has grown again; the new spring census will show it clearly.
But today I should be more careful with my interpretative wording. Although it is very good if you have fish with a clear locality, this does not mean automatically (1) that you know the species (often it’s undescribed from over there, it’s a bintan-type, and then you are as knowing as before), and it does not mean (2) that your fish are of lesser beauty than others.Lennart’s “blue line” are typical blue-lines of the type of the first shipments we received in 2005/2006, with brilliant colours (more brilliant that those of spec. Sentang) and whitish and rather longish filaments of the ventrals. It’s mostly the ventrals in which the other imports of so-called blue-lines differed. There is a clear distinction from harveyi which always has a broader black rim at the tail’s end, but the colours are similarly brilliant.
Unfortunately, I did not photograph those old imports because I am not a fish-photographer. There are a few old pictures some better most of lesser quality. It’s a good suggestion to place them together, but often we don’t know the photographer and in other cases we alck the rights to do that. As a website which takes that problem of the rights serious (most do not) this creates some problems. But perhaps we find a solution.
But generally speaking: One reason why Paro-aquaristics is as interesting as it is is the fact that there are still many unsolved problems. We have many whishes what would be best: to have all the forms genetically investigated, all clear species named, to have exact knowlegde about the distributions, and so on. But this is wishful thinking. Slowly, we approach that Holy land of satisfied wishes, but at the meantime we must be content with many unclear forms. But beautiful forms, Lennart, just as your “blue-lines”!
Thank you Peter for your answer.
But surely with this one – the fish of Lennart – we could ask kindly to be allowed to document through photoes 🙂 and thats a start at least.
I think its valuable to have this documentation, as it quite often happens that someone is in doubt, – is this blue line or sentang or .. ??? and is looking around for photoes to compare with.Helene, of course we should and will do so. But we must and shall ask all proprietors of relevant photos – if we know them – one by one für permission to use their photos for that purpose. I am quite sure most will allow us to do this for the sake of comparison. Especially since our website takes the rights’ problem more serious than most others do.
The question is only where to do it and how. The possibility I would suggest – as blue line is concerned – would be at the other-forms-blue-line page. I hope that we will generally proceed with the other-forms pages this year. Then we could do the same with relevant photos to other other-forms (e.g. spec. Sentang or other species from the Sumatranian bintan-types).
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