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Hi all,
Are there any catfish species that are safe to keep in a Paro tank? I know a lot of catfish could be consumers of eggs, but is there one that the Paros would be comfortable living with and won’t bother eggs?
BillI would turn the question around : what kind of catfish can live with the paros ? Finding a carfish that wouldn’t take eggs is difficult enough…finding one that could live with the extreme water values in a paros tank is near to impossible. I donæ’t know of any, but maybe someone here with good local knowledge of paros habitats may be able to give a better answer.
Hey,
I think it is not really probable that any of the ancistrus-like catfish will be completely safe for paros. The only ones that might have the potential are small species of otocinculus. However, I am not quite sure if the water values would match.
Another option would perhaps be corydoras pygmaeus or the like. I have seen a tank at Dorothees with a nice assembly of acid-soft water loving fish including dwarf corys.
BUT I would not dare to expect either of the fish to spawn or to even have fry survive. Such tanks with a variety of species are certainly an interesting thing. Personally I would rather try keeping small boraras together with paros before adding anything else…[quote=”RafEg” post=5637]
Another option would perhaps be corydoras pygmaeus or the like. [/quote]
As a long time corydoras enthusiast and keeper/breeder, currently with 3 tanks dedicated to these fish, I must protest. Yes, corys need acidic and soft water, but keeping them at a pH much below 6 for any lenght of time is not acceptable.Hi Ghia,
[quote=”Ghia” post=5639]
As a long time corydoras enthusiast and keeper/breeder, currently with 3 tanks dedicated to these fish, I must protest. Yes, corys need acidic and soft water, but keeping them at a pH much below 6 for any lenght of time is not acceptable.[/quote]It surely was not my intention to offend you. I must admit that I have never really gotten that much into the catfish-matter. As you say, I think pH around 6 would still be suitable for pygmaeus. Of course this is not optimal but there are still some species (linkei) of parosphromenus that can be kept at these values. They will perhaps not spawn and one has to make sure the water is really clean from any kinds of germs but for a well skilled and experienced keeper, this might work.
As mentioned earlier, I have seen such a tank that works perfectly well… Maybe Dorothee can comment on that as well.As to Bill: From what I have read in other threads, you are not among those with a year long experience of low pH/EC aquaristics and the even a bit more special paros.
So please, once you have some, do keep them on their own and learn how to treat them correctly. A single-species tank is also the (almost) only option for you to participate in the breeding programme because only in such environments you have the total control.
Best wishes, Rafael
[quote=”RafEg” post=5640]Hi Ghia,
It surely was not my intention to offend you. I must admit that I have never really gotten that much into the catfish-matter. As you say, I think pH around 6 would still be suitable for pygmaeus. [/quote]
You did not offend me…I was standing up for the welfare of the fish, not for myself. That someone does it and the fish live, does not necessarily mean they’re fine with it.
Note also that I said “..a pH much below 6..”. And when we’re talking paros, we’re often talking “much below 6”.[quote=”RafEg” post=5640]
As to Bill: From what I have read in other threads, you are not among those with a year long experience of low pH/EC aquaristics and the even a bit more special paros.
So please, once you have some, do keep them on their own and learn how to treat them correctly. A single-species tank is also the (almost) only option for you to participate in the breeding programme because only in such environments you have the total control.
Best wishes, Rafael[/quote]
Hi RafEg, while I do in fact have considerable and many years of keeping and breeding low pH fish (except Paros) it was never my intention to get Paros and put them in a tank with other fish. In fact, I seldom mix any fish. My intention would be to get to know these fish before I did anything other than breed them. My question was really for future use, I thought that perhaps in the future I could, in selected tanks, have a compatible fish. Like some people keep a few Boraras. But not until they have bred.
I would be extremely surprised if there is no catfish which shares the same habitat as the Paros. Getting to know our fish is extremely important, especially with such highly endangered fish, but gaining knowledge about the fish is not about the fish themselves, but what goes on in the habitat along with them. Often there is a symbiotic relationship between animals/plants etc., wouldn’t it be good to find out? We must remember – although this project isn’t about other fish – that because Paros are endangered, especially due to loss of habitat, then so are other fish. As someone who is concerned about conservation, both at home and abroad, I’m concerned for other species that are becoming endangered along with Paros. Although that will be a private concern and unlikely to encroach on this project.
While the project’s concern is primarily Parosphromenus, please, in a private capacity, think of the species that are going extinct with them.
I do appreciate the concerns you raise, and so you should, I could very well have been someone with no or little experience in keeping fish. So I do thank you for your input.
BillThere are a few species that inhabit the very acid peat swamps that house paros. Examples are the Striped Glass Catfish (Kryptopteris macrocephalus) and the Asian Leaf Catfish (Silurichtys indragiriensis). I would not trust them with paros, though. They’re at least double the size of most paros…but maybe it would work in a larger setup than paros are usually kept in.
Thanks, Ghia, I’ll look into those, they should make an interesting project alongside my Paros, even if not mixed.
BillWhile researching these two catfish I came across a catfish site. There is quite a few from Borneo and Peninsular Malaya, so I’m sure there must be one or two originate in the same ponds/streams as Paros. Lots of reading 🙂
You should reflect two things:
– Paros do nearly never occur in ponds but in streaming water only
– There are many descriptions of the fish communities at Paro-sites, but I never read of any catfish.There maybe a third point:
– Where do you get possible species?Think of the fact, that Paros in nature live to a major extent of the juvenile forms of the shrimps occuring in their habitats. But these species are missing in our pet shops. Why? Because normal aquarists would not buy them because of the water conditions. The same with possible catfish species.
Why are you so fixed to catfish? You cannot breed Paros in Community tanks. The adult go very good with Boraras, but not the very young. In the first weeks they hide mainly in the layer of leaves on the ground. Catfish preferring that would be counterproductive. Free swimming catfish are, to my knowledge, bound to other water conditions.
Hi Peter, thanks for your input.
I think everyone is picking me up wrong. I don’t want a community tank. I’ve never had a community tank. My interest is as a conservationist. If Paros are as endangered as they are, and I’m very sure they are, then my interest lies in helping conserve any species that are endangered along with them. I know that isn’t the concern here on the project, it’s a personal concern. My only thoughts were that if there was a catfish from the same habitat and it would safely live in the tank with Paros, then that would be a bonus. I see it as no different to others doing so with Boraras. It’s not something I intend to set out and do. If I ever get Paros, they will be housed on their own for breeding, as will other species. Then possibly, I need to find suitable accommodation for the young and that might mean housing them temporarily with another species. I’d rather that species was from the same habitat.
I’m not at all fixated on catfish, I’ve never, ever owned a catfish. It’s just that for some reason catfish came to mind. In conservation (I’m not trying to teach my grandmother how to suck eggs) we need to expand our own minds and consider everything in that habitat that is endangered. As I see things, the biggest threat is burning down forest to replant with oil palm. Ornithologists, I’m sure, have concerns about the many bird species vanishing, as do entomologists and botanists etc. etc. But they don’t only concern themselves with one genus. As an orchidist I never concerned myself with one genus, not even one family, but all species within that habitat. They are all endangered.
My point is not to get the Parosphromenus Project to open it’s door to those other species, I know this isn’t the place for it, but I need to know what’s happening with other species in those habitats. How do they interact etc. It’s a personal project that shouldn’t encroach on the Paro project, except if I was to see some very interesting interaction between Paros and another species.
I’m sure when people catch Paros, they catch other fish, but because they are wanting Paros, they will probably throw the other species back. We never know what has been thrown back. We have information on shrimp that they feed on, especially young, but for some strange reason no one brings any back to find a method of propagation. Why? I’m not speaking of commercial catchers for the trade, but Paro people who spend time going out there to catch their own fish.
Where would one get those species? At the moment, I don’t know. But when I first heard of Paros around 1970 they were not to be found either 🙂
I must read through a lot of information on here again, I was under the impression that Paros were found in large ponds/small lakes as well as streams. That was remiss of me.
Bill
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