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Hi Bill,
do you think about catfish for having something like a cleaning team in the tank?
I think it is already clear that we don’t speak about breeding tanks, but about the tank for our adult offspring.In two of my tanks of those kind (for my P. linkei) I have now since quite some time caridina parvidentata. This species is known for being very reproductive and being very tolerant to the water conditions.
I have learned that they seem to need some time to acclimate themselves but then they even reproduce themselves in tanks with 5 pH and EC of about 30.
I think they can be useful to clean the rests of brine shrimps not eaten by the Paros and to be living food themselves when still young.
P.S. indeed seems that nobody has tried till now to bring with them shrimps from the habitats of our Paros.
And I had been told at the Hamburg meeting that someone who tried, got thrown them away by the custom officers at the airport because they thought, that would be shrimps to eat for humans …Hi 7 Zwerge,
Not really as a clean-up crew. My interest is really what is becoming of the other species that are endangered along with the Paros. I think when I spoke of Catfish it was mainly a starting point; I suppose starting from the bottom and working up, so to speak 🙂
But that is interesting that once settled they breed for you in 5 pH. I’m trying to work out why those shrimp are noted as requiring a pH of 7-8 in literature. Perhaps they are usually found in clear water running over limestone? I think even the soils are averaging pH 5 in Indonesia/Malaysia, unless my memory is deceiving me 😆
Maybe one day, someone will manage to bring in and breed the local shrimp that live alongside of the Paros. As a similar shrimp can’t be found elsewhere requiring such acidic conditions then it must be assumed that these shrimp are endangered as well.
Many thanks for your input.
BillTwo German Parosphromenus-enthusiasts and specialists are determined to fly to Malaysia and perhaps Indonesia next year. Among their aims, they are clearly determined to bring some of the shrimps back home that live in the Paro-habitats.
The shrimp C. parvidentata that has been mentioned by 7 Zwerge has been detected by member of the steering comittee Benjamin Wilden as being tolerant of typical Paro water and nevertheless produces offspring in this milieu. He experimented with quite a few species, but not systematically and with intention of completeness, and found parvidentata the only species suited for the purposes of the Paro aquarium.
It is hard to get hold of it because it is small and not colourful and popular as many other species. It is unclear indeed what the notes on its preferences to be found in the literature (which tell us much higher values of pH and water hardness) are based upon; it is not at all clear that they are sound and based on reliable proof. But meanwhile it is proved by several successfull experiments that the species is suited – at least in sufficient an aspect – to our needs.
Let us hope that next year we learn more in this respect.
Perhaps they were first offered by someone who kept them at pH 7-8 and they made an assumption that they were suited to that then everyone else just followed along.
I note that some people call it the Malay shrimp, is it possible it is in fact the species which is found with Paros I wonder.
Do the Paros feed on the young C. parvidentata?
BillThere is obviously ome confusion around which species we’re actually talking about. Looking up Caridina parvidentata returns references to “Malaya shrimp”. Looking up “Malaya shrimp” returns references to Caridina sp. “Malaya”. And C. parvidentata is a Sulawesi species, living in waters with high alkalinity and pH (like cardinal shrimp).
So…are they the same, or different species ? And which what species was actually used in the experiments Peter Finke refers to ? Do any of them live in paros habitats ? Interesting…!
They could well be the same shrimp. Malaya was Peninsular Malaya and Singapore Island and, I think, British Borneo. After independence it became Malaysia including the peninsula, Singapore Island and what was British Borneo. The rest is Indonesia. That is probably where the name Malay or Malaya shrimp came from. It’s possible that before description it was known as Caridina sp. Malaya. Sulawesi may have been part of Malaya at one time, or the same shrimp was found in Malaya. I don’t think the territory is very distinct. The soil pH on Sulawesi appears to vary from 5.3 up to 6.8 and it also contains peat bog which I would assume is low in pH. However, these figures don’t guarantee that any streams will be of a low pH as there is a lot of limestone and uplifted coral.
Just thinking out loud :whistle:
BillSulawesi as never part of Malaya. It was ruled by natives until first the Portuguese and then the Dutch arrived in the 1660s. From 1669 The Dutch East India Company ruled, then it became part of the Dutch East Indies in 1905. Apart from a period during WWII, the island has been part of the Republic of Indonesia.
I have not been able to find any proof of C. pareparentis parvidentata existing outside Sulawesi, but will keep looking. I’m sure the case will stay open for a while yet 😉
Sulawesi is separated from Borneo/Kalimantan by a sea-depth of thousands of meters. Flora and fauna are to great parts different. I doubt that there are shrimp species identical at both sides of this gorge. There are no Paros on Sulawesi. Sulawesi is part of a different living world.
I think we should forget all traders fantasy names! We should use the scientific names, and this kind of shrimp is named Caridina pareparensis parvidentata.
And I don’t think, they live with our Paros.
They hadn’t been mentioned here in the Projekt, I found Informations in the german Aquaristic Magazine “Amazonas” July/August 2014. They were described as being as far too reproductive for normal tanks.
So I decided to try them. They were described as being very good in getting used to different water conditions. They seem to be a very invasive species, means that no other shrimps have the opportunity to survive as a species in their territory.And I am very sure that they already managed to reproduce themselves in my tank because I see more of them than in the beginning and I see very small ones and very big ones. Of course not as reproductive as in normal tanks with tap water.
And the truth about this we also will know some time next year , because the life time of shrimps is very limited. If I am wrong, they will disappear some day next year. But for now I claim, they do reproduce, although other experts claim it not being possible!
This happens in my Linkei adult tank with following parameter: EC about 30, pH 4,8 – 5,8. Many plants and Java moss to hide, leaves on the ground, moulding materials, also elder cones.
I am sure, if the Paros have the chance to catch shrimp babies, they will eat them.
Some time ago I tried with Caridina simonis about which we already talked here in the thread “The shrimp question”. They didn’t manage to survive. But I never had the feeling they had reproduced themselves.
P.S.: I find the C.p.parvidentata here at private breeders and at aquaristic shops. Perhaps they are kept as living food too for different fish.
Parvidentata was mentioned several time here in the PP-texts, in forum discussions and in my background texts. They could hardly live with our Paros in nature, but they do in our tanks. They do not represent the shrimps of the Paro-biotopes which we don not know up to the present day, to my knowledge.
Malay Muslim Sultanates were established in the South of Celebes long before the arrival of the Portuguese in the early 16th century. The Dutch arrived in the early 17th century and gradually spread their control but two States, Bone and Gowa, retained their independence until 1905 and 1911 respectively. During World War II it was occupied by Japan. It only became a part of Indonesia in 1950. When did it became Sulawesi? I can’t find a date or reference.
Anyway, we are drifting away from the original thread 😉I have to agree with Peter for the same reasons. It’s unlikely that the same shrimp is to be found on Borneo as well. It appears that the largest percentage of flora and fauna are endemic. So I shall look forward to the results of next year. I wish I could go :unsure:
I also agree with 7 Zwerge that we shouldn’t use those traders names. I discovered that by googling Caridina pareparensis parvidentata it only returns names like Malawa shrimp except in a few cases, in others people use Malaya shrimp. But I suspect they are talking about a different species.
Bill
Dear Peter, now I found some texts about C.parvidentata by the search.. I just forgot to change the time “a year ago” into “any date” :whistle:
Hey,
as Peter already mentioned I keep these C.parvidentata for about 7 years now. I bought them as C. parvidentata and hope they are. BUT I never proved because my shrimp taxonomy knowledge is too small.
As 7 Zwerge said: They reproduce very fast till pH of about 5. Parosphromenus seem to act different depending on species and other available food sources.
My P. sumatranus ate all the young shrimps so their population can´t grow. In this topic I have to correct you. They live quite a long time. I think 3 years is possible in good conditions.
The P. phoenicurus were not able to stop them, so the population is very large and there are always young shrimps in the tank.I don´t really care if these shrimps are originally with the Parosphromenus. They do well in the tanks and are an additional animal to watch (if no fish is willing to show up).
Best,
Bennie
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