Hello

[Bill Hunter]

I’m not sure if introductions are allowed in here, but I’ll do it anyway 🙂
I have a passion for these little fish, but it seems extremely difficult to get hold of any. I’m a Scotsman living in Ireland and it appears there are no other keepers/breeders of these wonderful little fish, so far I haven’t been able to source any Paros as shipping costs take them way out of my budget. Helene, Peter and Bernd were kind enough to write me and try to assist with stock but it is costing too much in transport. Maybe one day I will be able to get to Germany or some place to pick up stock. A pet shop in Ireland offers P. deissneri but as we all know, this fish isn’t in the trade, or it’s extremely unlikely to be in the trade. I really don’t want to go down the path of starting to breed fish that are likely named wrong.
Meanwhile I’ll keep admiring them from far off and hope to get some in the future. I’m currently enjoying reading every post on this forum, it’s a mine of information.
Bill.

[helene schoubye]

Hi Bill
I am sorry, I was a bit delayed in approving your first post here, – I may blame it on the sudden change in weather here in Denmark. All summer has been raining and grey, but the last two days has been sunny and lovely, – so I have not spend too much time on the computer :)..

But very warmly welcome here to the forum.

I was just thinking, – if possible, I would probably try to have a further look at those so called ‘deissneri’ – it has happened, that it was not a deissneri, but something otherwise really eciting.
In Denmark, it is also not easy to get clear species, – but theres one shop that sometimes does have paros, – and I always go and check them out, – perhaps sneak a photo and upload it here for help. But of course one shop in Ireland, may not mean its just around the corner for you :)..

There an interesting aspect in this whole paro-thing, that we perhaps focus too much on ‘clear species’ – in one way this is good and right, but in another way it makes us perhaps not openminded enough for the value of unidentified species. As yet, we dont really know how the different species are seperated, how they evolve, what variations may indicate and so forth.
Unidentified fish in shops can be a nightmare, – if they are really unidentifiable, or mixed, – but they can also be really beatiful and interesting. The so called blue line ‘variation’ which sometimes is very often to be found, resembles a bit deissneri, but is not of course, – yet its one of the most beatiful fish, and one of the more common at one time as far as I know. These – even though not clearly identified as a species, could be really important in our understanding of the development of the interrelatedness of species.. indeed perhaps it may even be a species in itself, but not yet recognised as such ..

I hope I making sense, – and I hope I am not too far from what other wise paro-people think, – I am not always getting these things completely right 🙂 .. but its just to say, that if you had the chance perhaps you should look at the ‘deissneri’. Who knows, perhaps it could even be 🙂 …
Just in the meantime untill we get some fish to you in Ireland ..

[helene schoubye]

🙂 … I am not trying to push you, – I really personally also do not go for the unidentified fish, – because I can choose now to rely on fish from within the project.
But I will say also, – that even a paro which is named wrong, – is still interesting.
I bought some at some stage labelled p. tweediei. I have now bred them and they are with several people in Europe, – and they are highly attractive – however (you may have come across some threads about them) – there has been much discussion whether they are tweediei, rubrimontis, alfredi … and I still dont know.
So they are now known as p.tweediei (ruinemans 2013). We know which one that is then.

I will add a picture, they are so beatiful

[Russell Green]

Hi Bill, and welcome to the project.

There seems to be a universal problem with fish being misidentified or mislabelled. But , I agree withHelene that these fish can be as interesting as correctly identified species.

There are a couple of members who live in the north of England , and we travelled to the international meeting in Hamburg and brought back some species we don’t have in the UK.
We have been successful in breeding some of these, and have plenty of young fish.
I don’t know if you travel back to Scotland or England, but im sure we can arrange to get some fish to you if you do. This would cut out the cost of shipping, which as you say is quite expensive.

Please feel free to contact me through the project if you want any further information.

Russ

[Bill Hunter]

Thanks for the welcome, Helene and Russ.

I had a good think about it last night and this morning and have decided to try the fish from the pet shop. Although it’s not local. I will need to sweet-talk my wife into driving me there (I’m disabled and unable to drive) and try and fit it in with her work days. The Alternative would be to get them to overnight them to me.

I must confess that my reluctance is down to a bit of OCD; Obsessive compulsive 😆 if it’s not named and in it’s proper place then it’s not going to be here. So, I’m going to break the habit and buy a few, they are only €5.99 each. The photos on their site seem to be P. deissneri, but that doesn’t mean a lot. They have borrowed the photos from JJphotos.dk which are probably correct, but I’ll be very, very surprised if the fish in the shop are correct.

Russ, I don’t get back to Scotland these days, but we have family come over a couple of times a year. Perhaps next time some of them come over we could organise over-nighting them to Edinburgh and they can bring them over on the ferry with them?

I am full of confidence that one day I will introduce these little gems to Ireland 🙂 (with accurate names) 😆

Bill

[Bill Hunter]

Meant to say, Helene, no problem with the delay of my initial post, I understand people are busy with other things. I had a look through your website, it’s very nice 🙂

Bill

[Russell Green]

Good luck with the fish from the pet shop, it will be interesting to see what they are.

Even if you can never give them a definite identification, it doesn’t matter, just appreciate the beauty of these little gems.

However you would want to get our fish over to you is not a problem. Keep in contact through this forum, or send me a personal message and we can organise something. Once you start with paros, you will be hooked ☺☺

[Bill Hunter]

Thanks, Russ. I think my sister is coming over in October so I will get in touch with you just before then.

I’m already hooked just reading about them on here 😆

Bill

[Peter Finke]

Bill, you mention photos of JJphotos.dk that seem to show P. deissneri; at least they were named like this.

I just tried to find that photo, but without success. But that portfolio is huge, and the pictures are of many authors, not by the owner of the site himself. The main point that I want to make is the follwing, however: The true P. deissneri is – in the male sex, but we generally distinguish the Paro species by the males in courtship colours – easily to be recognized, and normally in this species there is no reason for errors (see the pictures of male deissneri at our homepage).The very special form of the tail fin including a black filament and the very special colouring of the unpaired fins by separated short streaks instead of a continuous coloured band is highly specific. There are few websites only that are aware of this and illustrate fish named deissneri by photos of real deissneri. I should be interested to see that picture of which you say that it seems rightly to show that species. I doubt that. If it did it must be really specific and could be named without any doubt.

Generally I encourage you as Helene and Russ did to try the fish offered by that shop but obviously named wrongly. Despite of the name, all species and hitherto undescribed additional forms are beautiful fish; in some cases we could name them rightly but not in all. In fact, most of the Paros offered by the trade are no-name Paros because they were caught on Sumatra where some places are left that promise the professional catches a good harvest. Rarely, the trade offers fish from Western Malaysia or Kalimantan (Borneo), never from Sarawak or Bangka. And most of those fish from Sumatra are not scientifically described up to now; so, there is no “right” name presently. P. spec. Sentang or P. spec. “blue line” are the most frequently sold Paros in the zoo trade, but they bear provisional names only. And often even these fish are not identical; the fish offered bearing these provisional names have sometimes been collected at different sites, for the catchers and the exporters have no interest and experience in the fine differences of local variants. Nevertheless: they are beautiful fish. And its entirely unimportant whether they are “true species” or what sort of variant to an already named species “only”. There is a certian risk of different variants having been mixed up, but the risk of different species having been mixed like this is very small indeed.

[Bill Hunter]

Hi Peter,
I’m not so sure that the JJphoto.dk is accurate either, the photos appear to be of different fish. On his “Gourami” section, P. deissneri photos are on the very bottom of page one and continue on page two. But, here is a link to the Paros that are for sale in the shop in Ireland: http://wtfthis.me/2anbB7X
They claim the source of these fish are Malaysia, Singapore.
My wife has agreed to take me down to the shop next week so I will probably return with a few and am expecting them to be totally different from the photographs and especially different from P. deissneri.
Anyway, I will keep you updated when I get some.
Bill

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