Illness, – black coloration of fins

[helene schoubye]

I have an unfortunate development with a few of my labyrintfish, and lastly with a tank with four p.linkei fry, – they are grow up now.

Escpecially some of my malpulutta have developed some black or dark coloration in the edge of the fins, and sometimes also spots (though larger round areas, mostly, not small dots) of dark colour on the body.

This has now, after a change to a different tank, developed on the four of my linkei fry. It does not at all seem to influence how the fish is doing, – they seem fine in all other aspects, – but I really wonder what it is ??
Has anyone got any ideas ?

I remember I think the first time I saw it might have been on a pair of Betta uberis …
I add a few pictures, though not very good, I think it is possible to see the black edge in the fins, and the whole head is actually blackish. The condition seems also to change, so that one fish may look quite inflluenced by it one day, and the next it may be less
But it does not go away entirely ..

🙂 of course it is not the dot in the middle of the body, thats the linkei spot 🙂

[Volker]

Hi Helene,

I´m not an expert with diseases but I remembered a thread in the IGL forum in the
Paradiesfisch section. Some Macropodus spechti were showing dark spots on fins and
body.
The reason was identified by Charly Roßmann to be organic material like
rotting leaves,- wood,- plants and lot of detritus(don´t know if it´s the right english word = Mulm) that pollutes the water and can cause this spots.

The author of the thread found the source a rotting peace of wood and changed regularly 50%
of the water and the spots were more or less gone.

Here is the link, maybe you can compare the symptoms and it might help.
IGL thread

Volker

[Patrick Guhmann]

Hello Helene,

I had the same spots on the head of Apistogramma. At first fishes with spots showed no changes in their behaviour but some weeks later they became apathetic and died! I searched in the WWW and found the “black spots disease” caused from Trematods or cancer or Tuberkulose, others say that the spots are caused from dissolved organic material. This phanomenon is widespreat among cichlids, perhaps you find something useful in cichlid forums.

I hope the spots are not the same as on my Apistos.

best wishes and healthy fishes!

[helene schoubye]

thank you for your replies.
Somehow I think though that none of them applies, – the one regarding rotting leaves and decomposing things could actually be relevant, – because I do have lots of leaves, and organic materials, – but I know for a fact that with the four linkeis I changed everything in the tank, – its was all new, and theres no old material in that tank.

And it has been for a long time with the malpuluttaes, and they dont ‘deteriorate’ – at all. They seem to live fine with it.
However, I will look into this with the decomposing stuff, because it sound interesting. I am using quite a bit of peat and maybe the quality of is not perfect, or could cause something if left too long.

[helene schoubye]

Well, looking at the thread from IGL I must say this is excatly what I am seeing on the malpuluttaes, – so I will study this thread more intensely, and there must be something I can learn from that then
Thanks a lot

[Kevin Marshall]

Helene

Perhaps its just accumulations of natural pigmentation (melanin). Appearances of what seems un natural colouration can be common and in some cases aesthetically pleasing eg .Black Angel fish. The appearance in a number of related fishes could be due to a genetic marker (same with the malputta – and perhaps its a coincidence) but what triggers this I dont know ..I guess there could be a lot causes and one of those could be environmental… But at the end of the day if the fish are healthy I perhaps would not worry to much about it.

[Jacob]

Does this mean decay is dangerous? Too old leaves, and lots of roots, and not enough water changes, allows accumulation of something that makes the fish react with spots? (I though blackwater conditions, including the presence of humic substances, inhibited bacteria and decay which apparently causes the black spots.)
I have lots of live food animals probably scavenging everything, maybe that reduces rotting items a little, or is it not a matter of rotting and just too much dissolved organic matter accumulating on its own that causes problems?
How common is this problem in blackwater tanks?

[Peter Finke]

It is wrong to say “decay is dangerous”, but it is right to say “decay could be dangerous”.
I cannot comment on Helene’s problem; I don’t know what the cause of the black zones in the bodies of her fish are. But too much decay of rotting organic material can lead to such phenomena.
And certainly it can lead to severe hygienic problems.
This is one of the problems of blackwater aquaria, especially if they are small: You have to use much organic material (wood, leaves) which will not stay stable but undergo a process of continuing decay. Therefore, one has sharply to distinguish between fresh organic material and decaying organic material. And you have to consider the volume of a tank. The smaller your tanks are, it is certainly the more important to consider that problem.
If you begin a new small Parosphromenus-tank with leaves and wood, you should take fresh dead leaves and not too old wood. For instance, I take one sea-almond-tree leave and a handful of beech-leaves and some dead wood from a pet bog in a fresh set-up 10-liter-tank. This will have a good influence on it’s hygienic status for about at least four, maybe eight weeks. The sea-almond-tree-leaves are the first to rot, and then the positive influence turns into a negative. If it becomes smeary and greasy (and it will after some time), you should take it out and put a fresh in instead. The same happens with the beech leaves, but their decay takes more time, maybe months. Finally they have to be changed for new, too. It is very difficult to assess the decaying rate of wood, since there are very different forms and states of wood. Fresh dead wood from a peat bog is best, it will help you to create a stable blackwater milieu for months, maybe a year or even two. But the time will come when you have to throw it out and take a new one.
I admit that often I do not act in accordance with those rules. I had never that black spot problems, but I often had other problems (mostly fish disease, e.g. Oodinium and algae), telling me that some of my organic material has become too old and is rotting in a too-small tank. Then it is high time for a change.
Therefore, because we work with materials that are not normed but of very different natural origin, it is impossible to give a clear rule by quantitative measures. But one has certainly to consider the qualitative relations. Every dead organic material rots, but in different amounts of time. And all rotting is a load for a (small) tank. The beginning of that rotting process will have a positive influence on the blackwater milieu. But one has to learn when the point of a turnover has come; and act.

[helene schoubye]

I think theres a lot to be learned for me regarding this problem with this, – but I am a little bit curious about it still.

It seems to me that the malpuluttaes then must have been more vulnerable to this condition,since they are mostly the ones affected.

But developing this condition – darker spots, coloraations – happened within a week for the linkeies after having been put into a new tank (with new material – leaves, plants, a piece of wood) – this seems to indicate to me that theres a ‘contamination-proces’ happening now … is that possible do you think ?
That once the malpuluttaes have developet this condition – (perhaps because of inappropriate tank-conditions) – but once developed it may become contageous ??
This sound weird to me, but I dont know how else to understand the development with the linkeis.
No matter what, – I will try to ‘cure’ it through paying attention to the things that has now been brought to my attention, and I will then see if it hopefully has an improving influence.

[Jacob]

I have one female nagyi that has black marks on her dorsal, and a few black marks on her upper body and one on her tail.
It looks like random melanistic blotches, black coloration with no texture. Most of it is on the dorsal, several blotches. The tail has two smaller blotches.
There are two males with her, I saw black splotches on the tail of one of them, it is showing breeding color and acting fairly normal, still has the splotches though. The other male is hidden in a cave and I can’t see him.
I don’t think the other separate tank which has one pair in it is infected, or hasn’t shown it on the fish yet.
Any treatment, other than water changes and cleaning out rotting material, to try?
If the fish stays the same with these markings on it, is it likely that it will still reproduce and if it does is there some health problem passed on to the offspring?
It’s probably a matter of time whether or not it improves on its own, gets worse, is contagious, etc.
This tank does have a snail problem, and has had live blackworms as food.
If the disease is black spot, snails are said to be part of the life cycle of the parasite.
If it is environmental, caused by rotting material in the tank, maybe it should then clear up with improved conditions.
Copper sulphate is mentioned as a treatment for black spot, but that would probably be dangerous wouldn’t it.
Maybe salt or flubendazole works, I’m using flubendazole soon anyway for hydra.

[bartian]

Just change more water, and it will go away.

[Author]

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