- This topic has 37 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 8 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hello, my name is Jordy. I´m from Holland and just imegrated to Stuttgart in Germany.
I will be turning 25 years of age next month, and I´m interested in everything that evolves fresh- and saltwater aquaria.After some internet surfing about wild betta fish, I found a forum and a dutch-guy on that forum was keeping a Borneo biotope aquarium. After reading some pages about his set-up and his stocklist. He added some new fishes into his tank that did drawn my interest. It was a Paroshpromenus species, he had a small group in his 100cm biotope tank. After that I did start to collect info on this small fish, and ended up here after some while.
After collecting some info, I did came up with the next plan for keeping a pair of Parosphomenus fish.
Fluval Edge 2 Tank – 43 x 26 x 44,8cm – 46 Liter
It has a Hang-on filter ( 378 l/h min. 125 l/h
LED lighting
On this website I did read that 20-25 liter perfect is for a pair. As you can see is the Fluval edge 46 Liters but the base of the tank is 43 x 26cm. The extra liters come more from the height of the tank.
Some Questions:
Is this tank to big for a pair of Parosphromenus ? ( with breeding if pos. in the future )
Is it smart to fliter over filtration-media and peat ? ( to control PH and having a bit filtration )
What is better for substrate , sand or gravel ? ( keeping in mind I want to make some sort of biotope )
For breeding there is a cave needed, does it need to be from stone like material? Or can it be made by wood or other material ?
Greetings and thank you in Advanced
Jordy
Jordy, nice to meet you here, so finally it has worked.
Ypur questions:
1. tank size: Paros need not much space for their behaviour. Your tank is fine but think how you would raise the young. Some pairs tolerate the young, but you will really be unable to feed them properly; it’s too big. But you can try.
2. Filtration is not really necessary. Peat is best.
3. Substrate is not really necessary because you can’t use many plants in such water (no calcium, pH below 6.5, best between 5 and 6). At any rate the substrate must only cover the glass bottom. Leaves are important (oak, beech). Collect them dry from the wood and soak them in hot water.
4. The material of the cave is unimportant (plastic, clay, wood). But the cave should be small (diameter not more than 3 cm, perhaps less) and the surface level should make sure that no nest or eggs slide out.Hello Jordy and welcome to this Forum.
I think the fluval edge small tanks are ideal for keeping paros – I have myself been wanting to experiment a little with them. I would think the size is really fine for a pair, in particular if you have successfull spawning, then it does give more space than the smaller tanks, and you can keep the fry with the parents for somewhat longer.
I am curious though as to how much flow (or rather how little flow) you can adjust the filter to give, – although paros do not mind a little flow, it could also quickly become too much in such a small tank, – so if you start it up, let us know how it works. Theres always the option of blocking the outpour a little with a bit of foam or something, if it gets too much. And yes, I think its a good idea to filter over some peat or something like that.
For gravel, I would not really recommend sand or most gravels, – they all tend to work against a low ph, – the best results are when you are using either no substrate or substrate such as peat, leaves or I have actually started using fluval peat granules, – thats only to cover the bottom so as to make the tank darker, not a big layer, or fluvial shrimp substate which is something like the peat granules. Then add lots of peat, leaves and possible java moss. You will not be able to grow much plants if using no gravel, but plants such as javamos, javafern, ceratopteris and other will do fine.
As for caves, my paros just really prefer the clay caves which you normally would use for small catfishes, – or just any clay pot, broken or half or a piece of it, as long as they can get underneath them. Even leaves will sometimes work, or a place underneath a piece of wood. But the long cat-fish caves are my favouritesJust seen Peters response 🙂 .. of course you might think that it could be a problem feeding fry, – however, I would not be too pessimistic about this. If you provide an area with a good bit of javamos – say in one corner, and the cave close to this, – the fry will certainly be in this area and you could point your feeding to this area.
The problem of feeding fry I think is a problem even in smaller tanks, because you have to have very very small food available, and this is often difficult for new breeders. But if you find this and find out the tricks to handle it, – I think you would be able to feed fry also in a tank this size.
I currently have a 30 liter tank with a pair of P. nagyi, – and find no problems here, – fry is growing up fine, finding food good.
But I also do see Peters point, theres no saying if it might turn out being a problem, – but then i do think its probably linked to other problems too, such as getting aquainted with very small type food and so.Thank you Peter and Helene for your fast response!
I did forget to say that the tank will be a display tank.
So i realy want some plants in it and a substrate for the plants ( to cover to bottom to ), with on the substrate some leaves ofcours. Did find a small list of plants that are used in Borneo blackwater biotope tank.microsorium pteropus
crypto soorten
Hydrilla verticillata
Limnophila sessiliflora
Najas indica
Blyxa aubertii
Blyxa japonica
Hygrophila polysperma
Hygrophila corymbosa
Nymphaea stellata
Salvina natans
JavamosAbout the Hang-on filter that comes with the fluval edge 46L, it has a flowrate from 378 l/h Max – 125 l/h Minimal. So I did calculate it and thats a 2.7 of the total volume of the tank. As far as I know isn´t that to much in this matter (if i´m correct). While it only cycles on peat and filtation media.
Did look up the Fluval shrimp stratum and it sounds very good for using, it keeps the PH low, is good for planted tanks and looks good on the bottom (nice tip).
But there might be a contradiction here 🙂 … though I do think its possible to solve.
But with paros, – we really encourage you to have focus on the breeding aspect. Keeping paros for display is not encouraged because of their rare occurance and difficulty. You might have lots of troubles finding some, and finally having obtained a few fish, it is a pity to simply ‘maintain’ these in a display tank without giving them the best options where they will breed. You might not succeed at first, – but not trying would really be a pity. Because before long you might again find that you are without paros, and not able to find them again in shops.
However this of course does not mean that you cannot try to make a tank which also is worth looking at. But much gravel probably a lot of times prohibit that you can obtain the right ph value for breeding, – which is below 6 really.
You might read my thread called My P. Nagyi Cherating home – in this forum, European section, pictures. in this tank, which is 60 liter I have not used gravel and therefore also not many plants, however, I think this is more true in some ways to the natural habitats, which also consists mainly of peat and fallen leaves etc. and by no means is less ‘beatiful’ than a green tank full of plants. I also have experimented a bit with cryptocorynes and some will grow in very soft acidic waters and you can even get them to grow in peat substrate.
I will post a few video clips of this tank one of the nearest days to show how its getting along.I think i might be missunderstood with the words “display tank”, I would describe it more as a tank that looks appealing in a natural way. It´s more like a biotope from where the fish comes from. Maintaining a “good looking” tank isn´t my mean reason why I want to keep paros.
The mean reason is to breed paros after I have the exp. to keep them healty.
But the tank shouldn´t look like a standard breeding tank with a bare bottom and lack of natural elements.Okay, maybe there was a misunderstanding there on my part. But have a look through the different threads here in forum, there should be plenty of images which could inspire you. I have 25 + small 12 liter tanks, all breeding tanks, but I have lots of plants in most of them, – in fact some are totally overgrown 🙂
I use mainly javafern, javamoss, but also lots of salvinia natans for example.Few minutes ago I did look up the thread you mentioned, and it looks great.
Thats more the way I want to go. Very nice picture!Hoi, nog een Nederlander hier!
Tank size really isn’t a problem. I have a lot of fry growing fine alongside Betta strohi in 160 liters. I dared to try this because it is the sp. Sentang, which is quite common so no big deal when the fry wouldn’t survive. This tank is full of Ceratopteris, which is, in my opinion, perfect for rearing fry. In contrast to javamoss this plant rapidly dies and grows, producing al lot of waste which is consumed by small organisms, which in turn are a perfect food for fish fry. This is a lot more like how it happens in nature.
It appeared to me these fish are actually quite easy to breed with a lot of Ceratopterus. The tank is not even really acidic and I feed mainly frozen food.
Kijk een landgenoot op het forum, super :woohoo: .
Great info, will put it on the list of plants that I use for setting up the tank.
You use it as a floating plant or rooted ?
Was crossing my mind to keep a pair of Betta Macrostoma.
My set-up will be Paros only, as I like trying to breed them.I accidentally put it in there when adding Pistia. It started growing over the surface and soon after took over the tank. I now let it float in my other tanks.
You’re planning to keep macrostoma in another tank? Better don’t mix or the paro’s might get eaten.
Betta are great too, I’m keeping four species at the moment.
The problem is at this moment that I´m looking for renting a house/apartment here in Stuttgart because, at this moment I live at my girlfriends house (shared with here parents, each a own floor in the house). Don´t want to start a big tank or sevral tanks… and break them down in a few months.
Instead of a 100cm+ tank the Fluval edge 46L is easy tank to transport without big problems.
Won´t be mixing any paros with Bettas. I would love to have a pair of macrostoma´s in a other tank bigger tank after having my “own” place, then I can set-up much more, but for now I wanna focus on a special fluval edge 46L tank with some paros (maybe a small fry-tank in the future when needed).What Betta species you have? Any breeding ?
Jordy, your plant list must be commented upon in many respects. I confine myself to
“crypto soorten”: Most commonly used aquarium crytos are Sri Lanka species. They live in water totally different than that for Paros. It is a science of its own to develop a method of keeping those fish together with cryptos of the black waters. It is nearly impossible, a matter of different structure. Better, you leave cryptos out.
As the other plants with a great foliage are concerned you must mind that they all live form nutrients dissolved in the water. But your problem is to keep your nearly nutrient-free water blackwater as stable as possible. Using nutrients for plants is out. I don’t see a solution. Of course you can have a green tank with Paros (mine are green too), but mainly with Ceratopteris (very good) and other swimming plants and an occasional rank of Ludwigia or Hygrophila. But the lower your pH the number of suitable plant species is reduced to few. And for some Paros you need pH of 4, even of 3.5. The main aim is to reduce germs which attack the eggs and the larvae. Therefore you need the low pH. Plants are possible only with compromises, pH 6 – 6.5 for example. But the normal planted aquarium is an underwater-garden run with much carbon dioxide, and the Paro-habitats are not of that kind. Paros live within the riparian grasses that hang into the flowing water; that’s different.
Nevertheless, your tanks could be full of green and look wonderful, as do mine, but forget the normal scheme of gravel and underwater gardening. Amano is nothing for Paro-lovers (to name an extreme example) Even a Holland-aquarium (as we call them in Germany: heavily and nicely planted tanks with many plant species) are not suitable and practicable. It’s for show not for use. At least not for keeping and breeding Paros.
I wish you luck with your experiments.[quote=”Peter Finke” post=1571]Jordy, your plant list must be commented upon in many respects. I confine myself to
“crypto soorten”: Most commonly used aquarium crytos are Sri Lanka species. They live in water totally different than that for Paros. It is a science of its own to develop a method of keeping those fish together with cryptos of the black waters. It is nearly impossible, a matter of different structure. Better, you leave cryptos out.[/quote]Peter, I often read about your total refusal of using cryptos in paro tanks. Your argument is that most species live in completely different water conditions.
I think it is a lost chance not to try it with some crypto species. There are lots of informations about plants in the internet, and you can find out which species might fit. Here, for example.I keep Cryptocoryne undulata and C. walkeri in the tanks I use for my paros or which are in preparation. They are recommended for a ph-level from 5 upwards. They look very well, at least after keeping them for some months. If they would suffer from the wrong water conditions, they wouldn’t look that healthy.
I think you should think even beginners capable for chosing the right plants ……….Even with no ground layer you can plant them in small pots, using fertilizer balls which only release their components into the immediate root area. I currently try this with Blyxa japonica – were the limiting factor is not the ph-level, but the light. I put it in the brightest spot in the tank – up to now it looks fine.
I also keep Hygrophila difformis (which has been a wrong delivery) – I clamped it in a holder adhered to one side of the tank, and it lets it’s roots grow freely. It is said to remove nitrates just as well as Ceratopteris does.
I think some plants are worth a try and we shouldn’t refuse this from the first. There’s enough information on the web, and it’s not true that most plants offered for the aquarium trade need ph-levels of 6 at the minimum. There are many plants which fit to levels around 5, and what you have to do is find plants within this range which need only little light.
I additionally restrict my search to plants from the Asian region – but that’s a matter of purism.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.