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I try new plants regularly, and most do not survive. But when they do I leave them there. In such a way I composed some tanks with mainly cryptos, Java fern and Ceratopteris. Most cryptos do fine here, even in really dark water. I also found Sagittaria subulata does well in every condition I created. From highly acidic blackwater to room-temperature with a lot of light. This plant will make nice lawns with a lot of space beneath so that paros can hide under it.
Peter I fully understand your point. It´s not that I need to using every plant I have on my list. Maybe I will try to test a few plants that maybe arn´t suited for this type of water “by the book”.
Like Stefanie said about using/finding plants from a certain area that I can use in the tanks,
my region is Southeast Asia. By trail and error, in time you will have a list of plants you can use in this kind of water that are from this region. On this list will be plants that might not even live in -5.5ph water conditions “by the book”. But after testing it, they don´t seem to thrive or die, they just stay alive and survive.If we can collect all the info of what plants are kept by who, and put all experience and the water conditions with it.We might end up with a nice plant-list with some personal tips, that people can use in the future.
[quote=”Jordy” post=1574]Peter I fully understand your point. It´s not that I need to using every plant I have on my list. Maybe I will try to test a few plants that maybe arn´t suited for this type of water “by the book”.
Like Stefanie said about using/finding plants from a certain area that I can use in the tanks,
my region is Southeast Asia. By trail and error, in time you will have a list of plants you can use in this kind of water that are from this region. On this list will be plants that might not even live in -5.5ph water conditions “by the book”. But after testing it, they don´t seem to thrive or die, they just stay alive and survive.If we can collect all the info of what plants are kept by who, and put all experience and the water conditions with it.We might end up with a nice plant-list with some personal tips, that people can use in the future.[/quote]
Jordy, of course you should do what you want to do. You should “test a few plants” to your liking, and maybe we arrive at some advanced list with recommendations. That would be fine.
We know a lot about the ideal conditions for plants as we know them for fish. Of course we could confine ourselves to the ideal conditions for our fish (in order to get them propagated), and for the plants we could say “after testing it, they don’t seem to thrive or die, they just stay alive and survive”.
I am for decades a member of the European Cryptocoryne Society, and we have a lot of knowledge nowadays; the Bastmeijer-website is full of it. But the crypts of the aquarium trade are the hardy ones from Sri Lanka and not the sophisticated from the blackwater streams. Presently, there is no best method of practicing an aquarium which is best organized for licorice gouramies and equally best for the softwater crypts of Malaysia and Indonesia; presently they only can be safely grown emersed. The reason is the stagnant, not flowing water of an aquarium. We have a fundamental structural problem here that is difficult to solve. Therefore most specialists for these fish use only very few plants, and most specialists for certain plants don’t have licorice gouramies in their tanks. Especially in Europe we have been accustomed to an aquarium as a sort of underwater garden, and that is biologically very well working for many fish and many plants: those that are sold by the trade. There is no approved method for some other which are longed for by some more specialized people nevertheless: Sphaerichthys or Parosphromenus on the fish side and softwater crypts on the plant side.
The structure of an aquarium tank is so different from the structure of the natural biotopes (with 90% “soil” and its nutrient flows from below and only 10% water constantly being renewed) as compared to an aquarium with at least 90% stagnant water (the movement of the filter is no flow; you must repair this by frequent water changes) and – at most – 10% soil without any nutrient springs in it) that you have to choose between a big disadvantage for the fish or the same for the plants.
In the Parosphromenus-project we try to develop some paths that may lead to a better sustainment for heavily endangered fish. You are looking for the pragmatic compromise as a planted aquarium for them is concerned; I understand that and that’s quite in order. My small tanks are full of plants, too, admittedly mainly Ceratopteris, Salvinia, mosses, Java fern, only a few others. Of course, C. walkeri or C. undulata will stand quite a few deviations from their best milieu. But I wish you success to find a way of growing (not only keeping them a bit alive) of f.i. C. griffithii, C. bullosa, C. nurii or others. Some friends try, but presently we have no good solution. Be the one who makes the step further!
Thank you for your detailed explanation. Did do some reading and indeed most if not all Indonisian crypts can´t survive by beeing kept submersed only. Will not gonna try this out against your advice.
Think I´m gonna make it myself easy by not trying any difficult plants in my first paro set-up.
Great to have see so much knowledge on this forum.Here comes a new question, which paro species are available at this moment and are in need of breeding (more then others paros)? For my first paro set-up I´m not picky about most colorful species or what so ever, just want to help out and enjoying keeping and breeding them.
Where do you live? Utaka in Amersfoort has some bintan-like fish in stock. Betta’s Pride in Gouda specializes in Betta and other labyrinths and mostly also has paros.
@Peter
C. bullosa is traded sometimes, is this the real deal or some other species resembling bullosa? I would like to give it a try then.I come from Rotterdam ( but live in Stuttgart at this moment). But I still need to drive a few times to Rotterdam in the next time. I know Betta´s Pride, did notice they have some paro species.
You could also go to the IGL-tagung this spring. Here a lot of species will be sold by breeders. P. linkei is a good species to start with, but in my opinion the bintan-variants are also quite easy.
[quote=”Jordy” post=1578]Thank you for your detailed explanation.(…) Great to have see so much knowledge on this forum.
Here comes a new question, which paro species are available at this moment and are in need of breeding (more then others paros)? For my first paro set-up I´m not picky about most colorful species or what so ever, just want to help out and enjoying keeping and breeding them.[/quote]
Jordy, the newest information will be read in the next newsletter: In Germany, we have all 20 described species in private stock, even the long missed allani and gunawani. But some of these are not yet available from the breeders since they must enlarge the stock before. Others are available in very large stocks and not in need of addiditional breeders, e.g. linkei, filamentosus, nagyi-variants or quindecim. On the other hand: These are the best species to gain experience with. I always recommend them to Paro-beginners.
At last there are species that are really in need of being bred more than up to the present, e.g. sumatranus, opallios or alfredi. But there may be distribution-problems again or they are too sophisticated for beginners.
I shall send you privately the last census that was carried out in October 2012; it is slightly outdated but by far not fully. Second, I recommend you to write a mail to our distribution-address (see button “distribution”) and ask for addresses of breeders. Thirdly, if this is necessary, you could write to me personally and I try to help you personally.
Hello Jordy,
plants you can use at pH around 4-5 are:
Mayaca fluviatilis
Anubias barteri
Javafern
Javamoss
Ceratopteris
Salviniadown to 4,5 Lymnea
with these plants you can create a very nice aquarium. I would not use a motor filter. Because it is too strong and soaks the larvae in. It is better to use a small airpump with bubble filter.
Greetings
Patrick[quote=”bartian” post=1579]
@Peter
C. bullosa is traded sometimes, is this the real deal or some other species resembling bullosa? I would like to give it a try then.[/quote]The first “C. bullosa” a saw two decades ago on the list of a Netherland’s trader (and bought) turned out as a quite normal C. affinis with very bullose leaves. Insofar your question is fully justified. But I hear that nowadays sometimes the real C. bullosa is sometimes in trade.
Nevertheless I do not recommend to buy it for that purpose of establishing an advanced aquarium for licorice gouramies. To my knowledge there is (nearly?) nobody at present capable of keeping it alive or really grow it for a longer period submersed. All experts grow it (and many other species of the soft south-east-Asian running waters) emersed.
Since our debate evades a bit into special questions on Cryptocoryne, I shall inform Günter Oberjatzas (Hanover) who is one of the leading experts on this and – what is best! – who is member of the Parosphromenus-Project! I shall ask him to write something for this discussion. (If it is conveniant for him to do that, of course …).
Hello Peter and the group,
concerning Cryptocoryne are a lot of information available from the exelent page of Jan Bastmeijer http://crypts.home.xs4all.nl/Cryptocoryne/ . Cryptocoryne bullosa is found in streems with fast flowing water, low conductivity but not realy very low pH values. The culture of this plants is not easy but works fine under submerse conditions. In the trade of ornamental plant for aquaristic use this species is very rare. Some others shall be easier to get and will tolerate the conditions used in Parosphromenus aquarium.
I tried to cultivate in a Paro tank C. x thimahensis but it fails. I just instaled a tank with rainwater and start a test with some Crypts in plastic pots which will grow sufficiently. The result will be documented in this forum. The Crypts in this test are C. cordata forms, C. purpurea (what is a hybrid of C. cordata and C. griffitii), C. griffitii and C. spec.. For this species plants are available from the Crypto specialists. The traded plant species are mostly adapted to average water conditions and originated from Sri Lanka (as Peter wrote) with some exeptions. May be the well growing C. moehlmanii or C. pontederifolia are also to cultivate in acid water for Paros.
Unfortunately I never looked after Paros in the wild because my focus was on Cryptocoryne. But I remember some ponds in the jungle with very dark and acid water. Here the Paros and Crypts may grow together. Next travel (in two weeks) is destinated to Thailand and no Paros are expected.
If more specific information about Cryptocoryne is needed send me a message.
Günter
@Peter. Things are much more clear now. Will write a mail to the distribution-address, will make things much easier.
@PatrickG. Thank you for the list and advice. It´s very helpfull. When I have my filter in use, I will make a piece foam/sponge on the intake of the filter.@Günter Oberjatzas. Thank you for this great info. After reading your post, I can conclude that there is no
Cryptocoryne that we know of, that can be held submersed in our tanks and comes out of the direct habitat of paros. This is all what I just wanted to know.I also would like to thank for the sufficient informations!
But – to come back to one of the first posts here in this thread – as I remember the question was not:
Which plants can be used in a paro aquarium AND come from the original habitats of Parosphromenus –
but: Which plants can principally be used in a paro tank, which plants can stand the water conditions – no matter were they come from. In general – not confined to the habitats of paros.For the Parosphromenus habitat I expect some Cryptocoryne as submers plants. We found C. yujii in a small stream with 3.5 pH (unfortunately are my resources of this plant to low to do a risky test). Also Utricularia graminifolia grow in such acid water. Blyxa and other Utricularia are seen in the dark brown water together with Barclaya species and Eleocharis. Some pictures and water parameter of the mentioned localities will follow.
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