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With this newly created category “American: methods” we can take up Jacob’s very thorough going thread how to establish and manage a tank for blackwater fish like licorice or chocolate gouramis under the circumstances of the American aquaristic scene and market conditions. What is your practice or what would you suggest to prefer against other alternatives?
If I have understood him rightly, then Jacob wants to take a blackwater aquarium as a special ecological system with abiotic substances, plants and animals, that should be held stable by the use of conveniant products of the aquarium industry (as special fluids or modern filtration and other technical methods). Whereas we in Europe tend to reduce the technical devices to a minimum.
Right?I think I was looking at it that way, a really conservative approach, because I thought that it might leave no room for failure. I don’t really have the experience with blackwater tanks to really say I even have an approach I believe in, or know of an approach that works.
I thought the “European” method was the techincal approach, apparently that’s not the case. I think I just wanted to remove the doubt and confusion that I had about how to succeed with blackwater tanks and fish.
I would prefer that it be a simpler, less demanding kind of tank, but when I started posting it was with the idea that the tank would fail no matter what unless I removed all doubt about how to succeed.I would edit what I said a little, I think I got the impression that these tanks are very possible and was convinced they are not kept more in America because the fish haven’t been seen enough by people in stores. But this doesn’t mean I actually felt confident about what to do to keep them alive using only my own ideas. Just that they aren’t impossible, but maybe they seem like it because they have no place in most American fish stores at the moment.
The thread being ended was smart, it needed to die a natural death. I think it was getting too general, and my questions are mostly answered, though I have to put them into practice so we’ll see.
I think I’ve talked out the issues I was confused about and will leave it to Americans who keep these fish to represent whatever the American methods are!It seems that the abiotic approach is partially correct, because I’ve read books that say to heavily plant chocolate gourami tanks, and that “natural” approach is not actually possible if it is a true blackwater tank. (Many sources don’t really recommend a true blackwater tank, just a somewhat soft and acid tank but not truly in the range of blackwater conditions.) The fact that the fish eat so little and the tanks are pretty undercrowded is something I thought was a more sterile approach, but actually doesn’t preclude some planting and a low tech approach. There are apparently a few key points to remember, which seemed very impossible to untangle when I was not aware of them. This connects with an over all frustration with not really knowing the biology and chemistry of an aquarium, of course they will function without that knowledge but it is unnerving to mess with animals when you aren’t really sure what is actually happening and why. Freshwater fish seem fine in very simple tanks, but with blackwater fish I ran into an apparently much more complicated set of problems with their aquarium requirements.
Something more related to the last thread, would a pair of vaillanti gouramis work in a 25 gallon or slightly less sized aquarium? (It’s a Red Sea Max 130 which is 34 gallons but that includes a small sump that I don’t use.)
Sphaerichthys seem to be more of a schooling fish and also aggresive, which might mean one pair would be shy or aggresive. But it’s a more colorful fish that would probably attract more attention in a store if I bred them.
Maybe it would work fine to have a pair by itself in that sized tank.Jacob, you are fully right: blackwater tanks are not as easy to maintain than normal clearwater tanks. But: They are not as difficult to maintain as some of your fears seem to indicate. And additionally, there is a very interesting experience that we in Europe have made: humine acids and humine substances are important for that fish, but not necessarily a very low pH and even not necessarily true blackwater. Many Parosphromenus-species have in Germany been grown and bred in clearwater if the load of germs only was rather low. It’s the density of germs that is limiting the survival of eggs, larvae and very young blackwater fish, not the blackwater or the very low pH itself. But that helps to minimize the germ load.
Yes, try that S. vaillanti under these conditions. We have breeders with good success with these fish under similar circumstances. But look for P. harveyi or tweediei, linkei or brilliant quindecim or the new wonderfully red spec. Langgam: If they are presented adequately, they most certainly will gain new friends for those special, more biologically set-up aquaria, too.The tank has hydra in it. There are some strange small animals living in the tank, providing them food. It must be inevitable if there is live food in the tank at all times that there will also be hydra. Should I clean the tank and hope the hydra are reduced over time by that or put in something to treat the problem?
I read that blue gouramis might eat hydra, maybe sphaerichthys will but I bet even the blues would have to be really hungry to go for them.I think that hydra is not a problem unless its really really a lot, – and maybe it could depend on what type of hydra. Normally hydra will come because the tank is fed with lots of live small food, such as artemia. But they dont cause any problems for bigger fish in my opinion.
But I would not count on any gouramies to take them, nor in a reliable way 🙂 .. if theres other food, they will skip the hydra I am sure.
Back to the Sphaerichthys and numbers, – I think again, pairs are not a good idea. Again I havent got any personal experience, – but my friend found that keeping them in a smaller school really is very beneficial and even if you dont think breeding is possible with more numbers on the contrary it is then that they breed. I think they are mouthbreeders as well as the other chocolate gouramies which means you can then seperate the breeding parent when it comes close to releasing the fry.
But breeding chocolates or spaerichthys is kind of difficult 🙂There is an absolutely effective remedy against Hydra and Planaria. The entry in Wipikedia says: “Flubendazole is an anthelmintic. Its brand name is Flutelmium which is a paste manufactured by Janssen Pharmaceutica N.V. used by veterinarians for protection against internal parasites and worms in dogs and cats. Other brand names are Flubenol, Biovermin, and Flumoxal.”
Many of us in Europe have used it (here it is called “Flubenol”) as a white powder with definitely sure success against Hydra even when applied in very small doses. In a tank of about 25 liters you only have to put a very small amount (“a knife’s point”) on the water surface, it will spread there and one day later you will see the Hydra contract themselves and disappear. I never had fish loss or fish indisposition after its use.
But some aquarists dissuade from using it in presence of shrimps, others do not assent. I should be careful with that.
You should provide for a small amount. Try to get the powder-form, it’s easier to apply.
I do not know whether there is an aquarium-brand of this product in the U.S. Here in Europe there is none.In that interesting discussion with our american friend Jacob on blackwater aquaristics I mentioned the importance of low germ density and named a product of the Merck-Company for measuring that in the aquarium (post 145). Later (post 183) Jacob told us that this product will be no longer available, at least in the U.S.
Here is a link to another Company that sells a testing Kit equally conveniant, but it is to be proven in which country it is available.http://www.windaus.de/1828700226/126/PD67/419900015a_319/bes/Keimzahl/0/1/Windaus+Bild.html
This post has been moved from another kategori, as it was meant to be here. For this reason it may seem ‘out of order’ because it has been moved at a later time than the discussion took place / Helene Schoubye, webmaster
Does uv filtration remove humic substances or just bacteria?
I thought that the good bacteria lived in the sponge and on surfaces in the tank, but a uv filter can negatively affect an aquarium by killing organisms floating in the water?Also wondering how slow acclimation should be, the water is pH 4.2 and very soft, the fish will probably be in water 6.5. Not in blackwater, just mildly acidic, so I wonder how long to take acclimating them. I know water changes are done where they raise the pH and it only temporarily stresses the fish but since it would be a whole new environment I thought it might require a slow introduction. (And that is usually a raise in ph where this is lowering it, which is supposed to be worse for fish.)
Won’t be that bad of a shock, recent tests say water in tank is 5.7 and water for water changes is 6.2
Will have to filter the new water for longer to get lower ph.1. UV-filtration: There are no definite results of long-time experiments. The technique is useful for short-time application for well-defined situations (i.e. the removal of chemical additives or the destruction of “green water”) but not as a permanent part of a stable aquarium system. The effect depends on the electrical details of the lamp, on the quantity of the water-flow and other parameters. Humine substances may very well be deformed and destroyed; they are chemically not uniformous. In any case UV-filtration a deep technical manipulation of the water-body and the whole living-system (e.g. Fe which plants need for growing will be severely affected by it). For a healthy and stable blackwater tank it is unnecessary and even dangerous.
2. pH-shock: You should be careful in any case, especially if the difference is a full pH-step or more. If you have sensitive and valuable fish (as Parosphromenus or Sphaerichthys) you should adjust the water in no less than one hour, maybe more. Very cautious people do it by a “drip-method”.
On the other hand: I have often adjusted waters for and with Parosphromenus much more quickly up and down, sometimes one value within a quarter of an hour, and there was never a problem. It depends on the individual fish. Healthy and vital fish will mostly stay that (not if the difference is bigger!). But this is not a recommendation. There were situations in which the fish signalled discomfort under the new conditions. In two or three cases I had quickly to lessen the difference.
If you take time, one hour at least, better two, you will be on the safe side, especially with a difference of half a pH-step or less. Remind: Often, the fish are somehow weakened. Then my advice to be cautious holds so much the more.
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