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OK, I have been too harsh with my comments, I see this. But, please note
-that your mailing did not contain the information that this is not the ordinary, not to say normal food, but an occasionally given additional one; I think this information (which you gave us now) is an important addition;
– that the picture of one of my tanks does not show such a “horticultural milieu” (my words) but a lot of open space usable for the fish for displaying. As I saw in Western Malaysia myself Paros in nature live in thickets of riparian grasses and wood, but need and use little spaces within for their courtship behaviour;
– that there are certainly several different methods for breeding these fish, between with quite many plants and without any plants, but I should not be an advocate for “any ideas” that lead towards that goal. There are better ones and lesser good ones, and there is a guide-line: the milieu conditions they find in unspoiled nature. And feeding on collemboles is not within this range, although they occasionally feed on an item which has fallen on the surface, too.
But you are right in correcting me. If you accept this correction of mine, we can go on.I think no one thinks about just always feeding springtails to Paros – it was just the question how to get over a time of absence with additional food and not very professional fish sitter …. 😉
As to plants: I have some in the front part of the tank, the back is nearly empty , just some swimming plants, I think the 4 Paros like the structure.
[quote=”Peter Finke” post=3823] If you accept this correction of mine, we can go on.[/quote]
I’m sure neither of us meant to be harsh.
I intended only to supply a suggestion regarding an option for “holiday” feeding.
I have learned much from this forum, and happily accept any feedback that allows me to provide better conditions for my Paros.
Thank You 🙂Very good, we are on the same line now, and I am happy to see further helpful ideas of yours that tell us from your successful practice.
Be welcome here, PeterHallo!
Now I have another question ( 😉 I seem always to see problems no one seems to have 😉 ):You can find enough different methods how to breed brine shrimps so that we don’t need to discuss them all here.
But I see following problem:
There is the possibility to breed them in breeding bowls? shells? I don’t know the right word, that gives only a small amount of brine shrimps, but you have no eggs in the little sieve where the brine shrimps swim to the light. I hope you understand what I mean …And the method to get much more brine shrimps is the bottle method with air pump.
Provided you use the best quality of eggs – nevertheless you will never get just shrimps, without eggs …
Just the open eggs swim at the top of the bottle if you switch out the air pump …I controlled it with a magnifying glass. I tried different methods. I tried special bottles from the aquaristic industry.
It seems to me, that no one really controlles this mixture, one is happy to have many brine shrimps in the sieve to feed the fish…..Perhaps our Paros will just eat the swimming brine shrimps and not the eggs???
But it is always a risk, specially with young, small fish, they can get intestinal obstruction. In this way I once lost a whole group of young Oryzias woworae … (but these are fish who eat industrial food)
Has someone ideas concerning this subject? 😉
Yes, I would be concerned about not feeding too many unhatched eggs. Though I also think that the fish will mainly go for the live and kicking artemia nauplia, but as you say still …..
I have not many very good ideas, but I always do it like this : after having harvested the nauplia, I put them in this little container, which I then (if I can see there are many unhatched eggs) leave to stand for a little time, perhaps five minutes. I place the container near some light, sometimes just pointing a flash light on the side of the container. Then it becomes quite obvious where the live artemia is gathering and you can then use the little syringe.
[quote=”7 Zwerge” post=3835]Hallo!
Now I have another question ( 😉 I seem always to see problems no one seems to have 😉 ):You can find enough different methods how to breed brine shrimps so that we don’t need to discuss them all here.
But I see following problem:
There is the possibility to breed them in breeding bowls? shells? I don’t know the right word, that gives only a small amount of brine shrimps, but you have no eggs in the little sieve where the brine shrimps swim to the light. I hope you understand what I mean …And the method to get much more brine shrimps is the bottle method with air pump.
Provided you use the best quality of eggs – nevertheless you will never get just shrimps, without eggs …
Just the open eggs swim at the top of the bottle if you switch out the air pump …I controlled it with a magnifying glass. I tried different methods. I tried special bottles from the aquaristic industry.
It seems to me, that no one really controlles this mixture, one is happy to have many brine shrimps in the sieve to feed the fish…..Perhaps our Paros will just eat the swimming brine shrimps and not the eggs???
But it is always a risk, specially with young, small fish, they can get intestinal obstruction. In this way I once lost a whole group of young Oryzias woworae … (but these are fish who eat industrial food)
Has someone ideas concerning this subject? ;-)[/quote]
I am preparing an extensive article for the hobbyists in the P-P on how to handle Artemia the right way but I will post pictures tomorrow where you can see how you can hatch eggs without aeration and have them clearly separated. Of course other possible method is decapsulation of eggs pre hatching which is the best, but you do not need to do that.
The best method to avoid that nuisance of a mixture of hatched naupliae and unhatched eggs is to buy the best quality. In Germany it’s Sander’s. The hatching success is nearly 100%. But it is very expensive. One canister costs nearly one hundred Euros.
The second best method is the right tea sieve. I saw this when I was in Paris with Olivier Perrin. He sieves the hatched brine shrimp a second time with a sieve that has exactly the right wideness to let the animals through and holds the unhatched eggs back. Probably you need little experiment to find the right sieve.
Thanks for your answers!
And I´m looking forward to Deapin peats text!Exept the tea sieve I am practicing all your methods.
The sieve till now not because I´ve read that there would be no chance because the naupliae would be same size as the eggs. But I will try tomorrow with my new naupliae breed!Of course I use Sanders (its a fresh new tin), the blue premium tin. Better ones I didn’t find to order.
I store it frozen, with a very very small opening to fill 10 small bottles, I closed the opening again, the small bottles are also frozen and I take just the amount which I need for breeding.
I find that I get just about 80% naupliae, never 100%.The naupliae seem to be best to separate after 24 hours. Than they are so strong moving to the narrow bottom of the bottle. I put a black plastic bag for dogs excreta over the bottle, light the bottom end with a torch, and there seems not to be much of room for eggs. Its about 2 – 3 cm high mainly just naupliae.
But there are still left I guess 50% naupliae and 50% eggs.
The next hours or the next day the left naupliae seem no more moving so strong, they stay mostly swimming between the unhatched eggs ….and the unhatched eggs stay unhatched …So, how I do it. You can construct a hatching bowl for zero cost from stuff everyone has at home. Using this method we are hatching artemia without aeration. This method is very usefull for everyone who needs to hatch small amounts of eggs as well as greater amounts, you just need to use a bigger bowl or more of them. Compared to the amounts doable with aeration, you can hatch more eggs this way. The always stressed out importance of high oxygen levels is simply achieved by the contact of the eggs with air on the water level. Even after hatching, if you do not use to much of eggs, the nauplii will not suffocate as they do in high pet bottles where all the surface is covered with the shells after you stop the aeration. This way, you get the best separation possible for hatching of normal eggs, e.g. you hardly ever see a single sheel if this is done right. 🙂
All you would need is transparent cup (from icecream for example) and a thin piece of expanded polystyrene. I think that picture says it all, you basicaly cover most of the cup with black gafa type and only leave couple centimeteres transparent for the nauplii to have a place to gather. Using the polystyrene, you create a septum that reaches pretty close to the bottom of the cup. Newly hatched artemia nauplii will swim down under the septum and will gather on the other side of the cup near the light where you have left the transparent part of the cup uncovered. There you can siphon them with air tubing or with a syringe, put in to the sieve and rinse.Hatching guide: place the hatching bowl somewhere where you are sure you will not have to move it. Fill the bowl with the hatching solution and let it stay for a while until the water stops moving. Then gently sprinkle the water level (in the non transparent part of the cup with eggs. It is important to not move the cup so that eggs do not drop down from the surface. If some of it would drop down, its not much of a problem, high quality eggs will mostly hatch anyways. If you would have such problem continuosly, add a little more salt in to the hatching solution. But if you use the recommended salinity tha my Sanders eggs have on the packing, it is so high that it should like never happen 😀
Wait (with your eggs it should be no more then 20 hours depending on temperature) and siphon the nauplii.
Hallo! Fine article!
I will try the method with a bigger bowl.
Seems to me a similar method like this:I have two of them. But as I said, it’s not so much nauplia you get this way because you can’t put in so much eggs as in the bottles …
My tablet makes always jokes if I use it for the forum, this time it hasn’t sent my text in the orbit, but turn my foto around 😉 hope you can see it …
yes thats exactly it, besides it is for free and you can construct as big and as many as you need. This was not the final article :), I am working on real article that would guide people trough all the artemia stuff, like preserving its hatching efficiency (storing eggs), right methods for preserving the nutritional value (decapsulation of eggs pre hatching, hatching and storing nauplii), bioencapsultion of nauplii and stuff like that. I hope to have this done within two or three weeks, I am kind of busy right now and it goes quite slow but I will get there sooner or later.
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