My New Parosphromenus

[David Jones]

Hi all, I am a new member of the Parosphromenus Project living in Delaware. I have greatly enjoyed the PP forum and all that it contains.
Thought I would share a few photos of my new parosphromenus sp. here in the American forum. These came in two days ago and are settling in. I posted photos in the Global forum and there is a discussion there about what exactly they might be, either P. sumatranus or sp. Palangan or some new form altogether.
I hope I can breed them and will do my best to succeed. Any tips or advice appreciated. I have 1M5F in a half-filled 10gal Aquarium with peat, java moss and caves. I’m currently lowering water values suitable for paros. Feeding live grindals and BBS. I will eventually separate out one pair for breeding. I’ll post more photos and videos ongoing to document my first attempt at breeding. Wish me luck!
Hope you enjoy and if any of our American members have any photos to share, please do, as it would be great to see them. 🙂

Male
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/UBEvOL.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/Bq0KNk.jpg[/IMG]

Female
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/vhgX2v.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/912/nJOv8C.jpg[/IMG]

Regards,
Dave

[helene schoubye]

Hello and welcome here.
I am looking very much forward to seing more pictures of your fish. I have read your other posts and the comments from Peter.
Personally my first thought was that these fish does resemble p.sumatranus, – I also see the small signs as you were talking about, plus there something about the female, the way it looks, in the body etc, which I think I recognize. I had sumatranus for some time.
So its exciting to see if the do the upside down flash 🙂 ..

And if it is sumatranus bought in a shop in America 🙂 ? .. hmm… that would be interesting as well.
But of course, lets wait and see. They look to be thriving well.

[Bill Little]

Dave — some great photos that you are sharing – thanks. Some members complain that they can’t get their fish to come out into the open long enough to get the photo. Please tell us how you get your fish to “pose” for the photos? It would also be of interest to tell us what kind of camera equipment you are using. Keep the photos coming…

[David Jones]

Thank you very much for your welcome, Helene! I have enjoyed and learned so much from you posts, photos and videos!
Yes I hope to breed them and see the courtship dance (at least) – some portion of luck would be a welcome addition to the endeavor. I will leave it to the experienced paro keepers to make the final call on ID – it is exciting that maybe they are something really different. But, as you say, we will wait and see.
These were not quite “bought in a shop” but obtained from a gentleman who sells many fishes. He got in perhaps over 40 animals from an importer, is my guess, but no further information is available from him. However this is a lucky find and Bill might be getting some as well. I will do my best to follow the instructions in PP forum to provide the proper conditions keeping and breeding. I will post more photos for sure – probably too many…as I enjoy photography as a hobby. The fish so far do seem to be doing well, eating and swimming about actively. So far so good.

[David Jones]

Thanks, Bill, for your compliment. 🙂 As for the photo methods – the fish actively swim about the entire aquarium all the time, so it is a matter of waiting until they move the the front of the aquarium and then I can snap a few photos before they get shy and move off. I have read that sumatranus are very shy, and these are sensitive to any movement in front of the aquarium, but they really do not hide all the time by any stretch. So, kind of lucky that way. The tank is quiet (no filter), not too brightly lit and, I guess, arranged so that the fishes feel somewhat safe to move about.

My camera is a mid-range Nikon P-510, nothing special at all. It just has a fairly good macro capability and enough flexibility in manual adjustments to work for my limited photo skills. I would recommend it to any aquarist for fish photography who does not expect top quality results and does not want to spend top $$ for equipment. Maybe one of these days I’ll move up, but for now this one will do. I’ll post more photos as I can. In fact a few more just now.

[David Jones]

Here are a few more photos, and I need some expert eyes to help out. I originally thought I had only one male out of the 6 fish. But in photographing them I think there is the possibility that I might have two males. Please look at the photos below and what do you think about male2? Is it male or colorful female. I hope the photos are good enough to help with the ID. Many thanks!

Male 1 for comparison
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/GhfngN.jpg[/IMG]

Male 2 – is this a male or colorful female?
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/909/vp74wo.jpg[/IMG]

Male 2(bottom) and female (top) for comparison
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/913/EDgUkd.jpg[/IMG]

And definite female for comparison
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/901/dftUEc.jpg[/IMG]

It would great if I have two males, and I hope so. Although not the most colorful paro, I really like the metallic gold on the bodies and their bright red eyes!- I’ve never knew that paros could get the yellow-gold color on their bodies – a really nice surprise.

Thanks for the help 🙂

[Peter Finke]

Your photos are excellent, but your fish are not fully adult and the males (you have two) not fully coloured. The typical marker-combination of adult male P. sumatranus are missing, but somehow faintly indicated; I cannot exclude that they will develop still in the next months.

My suspicion is that it’s not sumatranus but an interesting variant, no doubt. If it is, you are moe lucky than as an owner of sumatranus. That rarely happens today, but it does from time to time. The destruction of the old habitats force the catchers to look for formerly unexploited areas, and some small or difficult to be accessed will have survived.

Things remain open until they display.

[David Jones]

Thank you Helene and Peter for your much valued and knowledgeable considerations of these fishes – and, good news! – I have at least two pairs with which to work for a better chance at breeding them :cheer:. I will, for the time being, allow the fishes to further settle in, adjust the water parameters (now at pH 6.7 and TDS 140ppm) to proper levels over the next week or so with small replacements of RO water each day. It will be fascinating to watch these sub-adults grow out and develop. Any further developments I will post here and hopefully all goes smoothly.

[David Jones]

One week update: Daily 1L replacements with RO water have brought levels from ~420ms to 165ms, and 7.6pH to 6.4pH, temps ~22C. Over the course of this week I’ll go for ~40ms and 5.0pH.

The male here is looking very good – I can’t wait to see him fully grown! He has claimed a cocco cave on one side of the tank as his space…
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/908/Rhgb6F.jpg[/IMG]

The group dynamic has changed from the fishes schooling around together to now more settled in and little hiding places being claimed as territories. The females have been doing the most –

Here two females squabble over a cocco cave…
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/NmxQSi.jpg[/IMG]

And the winner is this female – she has claimed two hiding places as her own on the other side of the tank, about 1/3 the tank space on one side…possibly the dominant fish of them all. I think this may be good, as I could select the dominant male above with this dominant female as a potential breeding pair.
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/912/nsCHyb.jpg[/IMG]

All the group are feeding well, nauplii the basic food, along with occasional grindals. I will set up some moina cultures soon. (I do not have access to mosquito larvae this time) So hopefully nauplii, moina and grindals (sparingly) will suffice for food.
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/661/rMMF9m.jpg[/IMG]

Helene, I first read your reply (too late one evening) as saying you thought these did not look like sumatranus – rereading I see you thought they do look like them, and I would have to agree they look quite similar to sumatranus. I found this site http://parosphromenusphotograph.web.fc2.com/sumatranus.html with great photos of paros! I think my fish show several similarities with the fish pictured and labeled as P. sumatranus, including the golden scales along the lateral area – really nice feature. As per Peter, the original collecting area(s) of the fish described as sumatranus have been destroyed, then these fish would possibly have to come from some other location, and thereby, understandably might show variations from the original sumatranus form. That they are close to or a variant of sumatranus seems clear, but again, we’ll have to wait until they (hopefully) display.

[David Jones]

Two weeks update – daily 1L water replacements with RO water treated with alder cones has yielded water parameters of 100µS/cm, 5.6 pH and temps between 23-26C. The warmer temperatures have arrived this past week and thus the increase in water temp. I will try to keep water temps from rising above 26C.
I will try to lower conductivity and pH even lower over the next week. The fish continue to look healthy and eat well, so some luck with the acclimation process to better water levels.

Here a photo showing now more humic substances in the water from alder cones, and a nice couple. I wonder how long it will be before any signs of breeding show? I understand this is a challenging species to work with, so all the more luck is needed for my first try with breeding paros!

[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/oQ74v8.jpg[/IMG]

[David Jones]

21 day update: Water parameters: conductivity ~70µS/cm³ (will continue with RO water changes to get even lower); pH ~5.7; Temps ~25-26C.

A few photos (tea-colored water makes it difficult to get good ones) showing a color change in the female – she now has strawberry-reddish colors – very striking. The male has gone mostly less colorful in comparison, as the female is the dominant fish. Still feeding well and co-existing relatively peacefully.

[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/909/ihsCEB.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/661/29pKFf.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/908/LmgeVd.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/1sGgbd.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/910/lLV4M9.jpg[/IMG]

[David Jones]

One month update: Water parameters: conductivity 55µS, pH 5.7, Temp 25C. I’m having difficulty getting pH down into the 5.0 level (or below). I am treating RO water with alder cones. I’d rather not use chemical acids to lower further, but if it is thought to be necessary, I can try it. I recall reading on this forum about someone spawning parvulus at 6.0 or above? I know some paros will require lower pH to spawn, yet I’ve had wild bettas (brownorum) spawn and fry grow out at pH of 7.5! (prolifically).

The rearranged “apartment” for the separated pair – I added oak leaves to help with lowering pH and provide additional levels and hiding places. I’ve increased the floor space by another 5cm in length (30cm x 25cm), to give them some more living room.
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/KnpjjE.jpg[/IMG]

Nothing new; more of the same look in photos…but please enjoy just the same (and I will hold off for a while until something of interest emerges 😉 ). However, I do not see the dark spot in the dorsal fin of this male developing to any greater extent.
Male
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/3tUgwl.jpg[/IMG]

Pair
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/633/1UyQv3.jpg[/IMG]

[Bernd Bussler]

Many plants in the aquarium is neutral PH value. Plants always try a neutral pH value desirable. In sour water can hardly plants grow. At acidic pH below 5 ° I mean

[David Jones]

Yes, Bernd, you are right! By removing CO₂ in photosynthesis the plants can raise the pH. Thank your for the reminder, I think that solves the puzzle of why my pH is not going further down.

The questions are:
Is pH 5.5-5.7 low enough to minimize bacteria load that could harm the eggs/larvae? If not, should I remove plants to lower pH? or use acid to lower pH?. I would like to keep plants if possible – I see many of the good paro breeders have quite a few plants in their tanks – are they getting low enough pH, even with the plants? One thought – at 55µS, maybe my pocket pH meter gives an incorrect reading (to high) due to low conductivity? I will re-calibrate it soon and see if the reading changes.

And, is conductivity of 55µS=low calcium and other minerals low enough for eggs to stick to the roof of the cave and develop? I think I can lower it with more RO water changes and will do it.

In any case, for the “keeping phase” perhaps the current levels are OK? For breeding they may need to be lower. One step at a time, the pair must grow to a compatible pair, we’ll see how it goes.

[Pavel Chaloupka]

Hey there,

I am definitely not nearly as experienced as Bernd with different Paros but I would leave the pH as it is for now . Even thought I have my fish under more extreme conditions, it is just because it is simple for me to prepare such water. If you want to have more stable and lower pH you can try to combine the alder cones with Terminalia catapa leaves extract and or oak leaves (combination of substances is usually more powerful) or if you find out later that you need extremely low pH, you can use peat (but you have to work with the ion exchange power of it 🙂 or some acid. If there is some tap water in the tank, you can still continue with the pure RO water changes and make the conductivity lower as the concentration of unwanted ions could still be a little too high.

[Author]

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