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This again is the one shown above, which I am sure to be a male. And I think I see a shimmer of a bright narrow band developing at the outer rim of the tail fin.
Some new pictures – I first thought that the differences in colouration were an artefact. But it isn’t – it’s maybe aggressive colouration, they had been chasing each other. The one that stayed yellowish is the bigger one I believe to be a male (see above). Faintly, but still – you can see the pattern in it’s tail fin on these new photos, too. The silvery ones don’t show the slightest tail pattern at all – angry females?
After a while – all show the same yellowish colouration again (supposed male in the middle):
You know, I think they are really quite young fish, and maybe its just not really possible yet to be sure what sex and what species 🙂
My Sentang started showing sexual dimorfism from about a centimeter SL. I believe yours are bigger, so if it is a bintan-like form it should be possible.
You know, I think they are really quite young fish, and maybe its just not really possible yet to be sure what sex and what species
No, Helene, I don’t think that they are “very” young. The smaller ones are younger, yes – but even they are about 2 or 2,5 cm/ total length. Compare to the diameter of the clay tube …… it’s about 2 cm.
And the bigger ones are as big as my P. nagyi, about 3 or 3,5 cm, so I think they might be full grown, depending on the species.
I don’t mean to annoy you ……….. but I want to show some new pictures of my paros …
I still believe the bigger one I showed you to be a male, in my eyes he very slightly colours up. One of the smaller ones I’m sure to be a female, and they’re together most of the time.
Supposed female in the foreground:
Supposed male’s following her, look at the colouration of his dorsal fin:
I am certainly not annoyed 🙂 .. I know the feeling of being just a little bit impatient and studying those new paros for hours to wait for them to ‘show their real colours’ or flash a little bit … its just a sign of how passionate we become about these tiny fishes.
However… though I can see the male is colouring up, – I am still not very much wiser with regards to what they will eventually be.
But following the unfolding story is great, so just keep the pictures coming.[quote=”helene” post=1738]I know the feeling of being just a little bit impatient and studying those new paros for hours to wait for them to ‘show their real colours’ or flash a little bit … [/quote]
You must have observed me …… 😉
But as you say – it’s very exciting to slowly watch them reveal themselves as ….???
I read from your post that you agree with at least the one shown above being a male? I admit that this is the most important thing to me – to have both sexes of the fish! Form or species – whatever comes out will delight me. But to have only males (or, much worse, only females – without knowing the species) would make me very unhappy.
Here’s another photo – not a good one, but you can see the colours of the dorsal and anal fin. The plain chestnut red is still there but the seam of the fins becomes very dark with a whitish edging.
I again take the risk to make a fool of myself – but is there a chance that this might be P. phoenicurus?
If you look at the phoenicurus’ species portrait, in the gallery on the bottom of the page, there are younger males in the background of some of the pictures (at least I think so…) which haven’t developed full colouration and remind me of the looming colour pattern of my possible male. And the depicted female also seems to be similar to mine…….. I think there aren’t so many species with this red colour in the unpaired fins.
@Helene: Something catched my eye: the species name “phoenicurus” in the title ought to be written in small letters, and the link list to the other species is not visible on the right side of the page. In species “gunawani” it’s the same. Hope it’s ok to tell you here in this thread, even though it’s off topic.I would say, no to that it might be p.phoenicurus, – that seems to me to be a very colourful paroshromenus, and I would think this would show up at the size your fish have, – so that you would not be in any doubt.
I really think its difficult, judging from the photoes, even to be sure that there are males between, – one may look so, I agree, but not clearly showing it yet.
Thanks for the hints, – sometimes I get ahead of myself here, – actually the pages of p. gunawani and p. phoenicurus is ‘in working’, – I just thought I would set in the photoes, – but we are working on the details still.These fish are definitely not phoenicurus. The main determination marker for that species (the one which rightly is mentioned as decisive in the scientific dscription) is the structure and colouring of the caudal. Your fish have normal bintan-like caudals. A faint reddish tone in the unpaired fins could occur even with females of some species in typical situations. You must be more patient, and then we must have good photos which is difficult, I know.
If your fish is from trade (and a private breeder would have given you a correct determination), then this is an additional hint that it is not phoenicurus. This species was never traded. All fish we have originate from one private import by H. Linke. Presently the species is distributed at three or four breeders in Germany only; the best is our member Martin Fischer (Würzburg), author of our Wikipedia-site. There is no indication whatsoever that the trade has detected this species already, for two reasons. First: The species-description is too new; that may be different next year. But second: We know it from one small location only; too tiny for commercial aims. Only if new locations could be detected this will have an effect on the traders. But I doubt it. The characteristic of this part of Sumatra in the Jambi-district is the rather close neighbourship of several similar forms nevertheless distinct. We know of very few locations with two species occuring together in one habitat. In all of these cases the two are clearly distinct not only by structure and colour, but mainly by the ecologic niche they inhabit. All this is not the case with those Sumatra-Paros.
German members of the P-P should, if possible, avoid – with a few exceptions, the most recent is spec. Ampah – fish from trade because of several reasons:
1. We have enough breeders with clearly determined stocks.
2. Many of these originate from privately wild caught animals with known and clear location.
3. Many species are available.
4. Everybody who does not know where and how should use the Distribution-button in our main-menue. There he/she will be directed to a breeder.
5. Even now, in winter time, some breeders will send the fish safely by parcel. I do not know of any other fish which could be such safely shipped in tinyest amounts of water.
6. Fish from trade are in rather many cases wrongly determined, often badly handled for long periods (no adequate food, no quietude, etc.), and therefore often in bad health.
7. Even in Asia already fish that are somewhat similar looking are thrown together in one tank by the catchers already when their catch at one place was too poor.
8. There most likely have been hybrids (at least between bintan-like forms) in the trade already not caused intentionally but because of negligence and improper care.[quote=”helene” post=1744]Thanks for the hints, – sometimes I get ahead of myself here, – actually the pages of p. gunawani and p. phoenicurus is ‘in working’, – I just thought I would set in the photoes, – but we are working on the details still.[/quote]
Oh, I know that it’s not completed yet – I absolutely didn’t mean to criticize you. I am only a user – and I notice things only from a user’s view. And sometimes this is helpful for the doers. That’s why I told you.
Thank you, Peter and Helene, for your comments on my phantastic reflections on (im)possible species belongings. At least you both don’t seem to totally preclude the possibility of having one male …….. I received a very disillusioning mail from Martin Hallmann today – he is convinced that I only have females ………..
I still think that the one individual I showed here stands out from the others in colouration and behaviour. But I also have in mind, that in my P. nagyi it didn’t take so long til a determination of the sexes was possible. And I have in mind that in nature there may be female individuals which show male attributes (from birds I know cock-feathered females).
So all I can do is what you already told me – be patient. And hope that Martin is not right ………. though this seems to be of very little chance …… 🙁[quote=”Peter Finke” post=1746](…) A faint reddish tone in the unpaired fins could occur even with females of some species in typical situations. (…)[/quote]
I think Martin is right as I said already (see above quotation).
[quote=”Peter Finke” post=1750][quote=”Peter Finke” post=1746](…) A faint reddish tone in the unpaired fins could occur even with females of some species in typical situations. (…)[/quote]
I think Martin is right as I said already (see above quotation).[/quote]
[quote=”Peter Finke” post=1746] You must be more patient, and then we must have good photos which is difficult, I know.[/quote]
But what should I be patient for, then? If they’re definitely all females …………
[quote=”Stefanie” post=1751] But what should I be patient for, then? If they’re definitely all females …………[/quote]
Who said “definitely”? Nobody. It’s a hypothesis. We only wanted to tell you: don’t exclude females at all. We cannot be sure from your desriptions and pictures. This at least is what I said. It’s a possibility that has to be taken serious. And you have not seen it like this before; you thought of males only. Therefore I repeat: Be patient and wait for the further development of these fish and their future behaviour and colouration. I must wait too. I am far from certainty.
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