- This topic has 49 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 11 years ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hi,
in several days I am to become the owner of 8 P. bintan ‘Sentang’. Since I am new to the Parosphromenus side of the hobby I wanted an opinion on the setup I’m planing.20 x Boraras maculatus
8 x P. bintan ‘Sentang’
unknown number of Melanoides tuberculata, and Anentome helena.Filtration consists of one Aquael Versamax FZN-1 cascade filter with specification availible here
— first chamber is filled with peat moss granules
— second chamber is with ceramics and spongeTemperature is set to 25 +/- 0.5 degress Celcius.
Lighting consists of two Aquael Ecolight 11W Modules working in a set 24h cycle
— firt module 9-16
— second module 12-20I used normal sand I got from a river.
Plants used are:
-[i]Vallisneria spiralis
-Cryptocoryne wendtii
-Ceratopteris thalictroides[/i]
and some that were brought in to the aquarium with Certopteris:
-[i]Lemna minor
-Riccia fluitans[/i]it’s 70 litres tank measuring 50x40x35 cm.
About water parameters: I’m not sure of them, but it comes from RO filter with a peat chamber, so it is soft and acidic, of that I am sure.
This is how the lights work:
[quote=”Sverting” post=1500]
20 x Boraras maculatus
8 x P. bintan ‘Sentang’
unknown number of Melanoides tuberculata, and Anentome helena.Answer: If you intend merely to keep the licorice gouramis, then this is a perfect community. But if you itend to breed them, you will probably be not successfull. The tank is too big and there sould be only one pair, at most two of the gouramis. A small cave is the most important requisite.
Filtration consists of one Aquael Versamax FZN-1 cascade filter with specification availible here
— first chamber is filled with peat moss granules
— second chamber is with ceramics and spongeAnswer: Filtration is of secondary importance. All chambers should be filled with peat. The streaming should be very soft.
Temperature is set to 25 +/- 0.5 degress Celcius.
Answer: OK, but it could be 23 degrees or 26 degrees, it does not matter much.
Lighting consists of two Aquael Ecolight 11W Modules working in a set 24h cycle
— firt module 9-16
— second module 12-20Answer: Lighting is of importance only for you and your plants. The licorice love subdued light.
I used normal sand I got from a river.
Answer: The gravel is for the licorice gouramis of minor importance. You need it for the plants (see below) But there is no “normal sand”. You must test it whether it contains calcium. Then it is useless. The most important thing is not mentioned by you: Leaves of beech or oak, soaked shortly in boiling water. A layer of that is recommended for all licorice tanks.
Plants used are:
-[i]Vallisneria spiralis
-Cryptocoryne wendtii
-Ceratopteris thalictroides[/i]
….Answer: Mind,that you must use nearly destilled water with very low pH! You will be unable to grow Vallisneria ranks of Ludwigia, and the Ceylon-Crypts (C. wendtii and others) in it! The only useful plant you mention is Ceratopteris. You should use Javamoss and perhaps Javafern, too. Some ranks of Ludwigia, that’s all. Very few plants grow in extremly soft and acid blackwaters!
it’s 70 litres tank measuring 50x40x35 cm.
Answer: As I said before, a nice tank, but not useful for breeding Paros. Too big, you will be unable to find the young and to feed them. Maybe, a few will grow up feeding on whatever, but not in company with the nice Boraras.
About water parameters: I’m not sure of them, but it comes from RO filter with a peat chamber, so it is soft and acidic, of that I am sure.
Answer: The water parameters are the most important thing. They need not to be at a very special value, but definitely without calcium, the conductivity well below 100 microsiemens/cm, better below 50, the ph well below 7.0, better 5.0 to 6.0, stable. Paper stripes are useless, too inexact. Take at least a measurng kit with fluids. Electronid equipment is best, but expensive and must be calibrated rightly, otherwise the values are often wrong.
Summary: I t will be a nice tank for keeping a small south-east Asian community, but some plants are improper and breeding will hardly be possible. You must realize that a blackwater aqaurium is something different than a normal planted tank. In such a planted tank the biochemical activity of the plants constantly feed on the contents of the water and actively change them. You cannot copy this for the blackwater organisms. Therefore you must omit plants altogether or use only those which adapt to the very special conditions of the peat swamps.
The first version of the post was deleted due to accidental “backspace” and thus leaving the site. I’ll try to keep it short this time.
1_As to the plants and negligible mineral content:
Me and my friends in Poland are able to grow these plants in RO water without any real problems. They do not grow in an astonishing rate, but survive and insure, that all the negligible mineral content will be replaced into plant matter, removing them from water. Here’s my friends Betta aquarium on pure RO water. No problems with plants so far:
2_As to the Boraras as unwanted neighoburs:
I strongly believe in the survival of the fittest and becouse of that I choose not to breed intensively as I think, that it might pollute the gene pool with treats that would normally be “deleted” by the nature. I strongly believe, that years of intensive breeding without any natural (or stimulated) selection might only result in preserving the form of the Paros but the behaviour. As observed with cichlids in the first captivity bred generations, the breeding mechanisms aare weakening with each generation in captivity.
In my opinion this might lead to crippling next generations of Paros making them unusable if ever were to be reintroduced to wilderness.3_As to feeding the fry.
If fish are fed with grindal worm, then the fry also shoul be able to eat smaller ones, that were not cought by any other fish becouse of their small size. In the layer of peat they are relatively safe, and when the leafes will be introduced it should become the Paros stronghold. If any of the fry were to wander too far from safety – look up 2_
This post is about four times shorter then the first version, but I think my point is taken. I’d rather have 1-3 Paros fry at a time. that are suited for survival, than lazy captive fish.
Hello everybody,
first of all: really nice tank, Sverting. Both, the dimensions and the setup with the peat moss and the thin roots, look very impressive.
But I agree with Peter when it comes to breeding. I made the experience, that paros need some quietness during mating and especially while caring for the eggs and fry. If the males are stressed too much, it sometimes leads to disappearing clutches etc..
What I observed with 2 pairs of P. phoenicurus in a 45l-tank was, that the 2 females spawned alternately with one dominant male (this male occupied the whole tank, although I had structured it into 2 territories. The other one was pale and standing in the corner). During every spawn the eggs/fry of the previous spawn were completely eaten (perhaps by the female?). So I watched several spawns but no fry developing. After separating one pair I finally got the first fry.
I think the problem is, that conditions in our tanks (even the “bigger” ones e.g. 30-50l) are much more confined than in nature.
So, from my experience, I would say that the size of the tank doesn’t matter too much, but that there’s only one pair for themselves seems to be essential for the development of fry.
Of course, this doesn’t mean, that you couldn’t be successful at any rate and shouldn’t try it.
If you should experience the same as I did, you can still catch out a nice couple and give them a quiet 20l-tank with a small cave, peat, beech/oak-leaves and Ceratopteris for their own.To the plants:
I was experimenting with different (almost all) species of crypts that are available in the aquarium trade. Most of them come from limestone areas in Sri Lanka and are therefor hardwater-species. I knew that, but still wanted to do the experiment and planted them in my show-tanks with iron-fertilizer-substrate covered with sand (some also in pots with pure sand). The result was that all of them melted within hours (pH: 5.0-5.5). So, I draw the conclusion, that they are simply not suitable.Selection:
Do you really think you can simulate natural selection in a small 70l-tank with some Boraras? I believe, that aquarium-strains are always a little “different” from the wild type (at least after some generations). With paros, I’ve never experienced something like laziness.If I were you, I’d pick out the best-looking couple and give them a seperate tank as Peter suggests and put the others in your beautiful community-tank. This way, you could have both: watch the mating and spawning behaviour of your couple and some territorial behaviour of the group in a nice community-setup. Apart from that you would enjoy “breeding-success”, because of course paros are way too precious to be only “kept” and on the long run wasted in a community tank.
Greetings
MartinTry your setup, but I have a different opinion:
1. If you think of healthy and strong fish that’s good, but why then don’t you think of healthy and strong plants? RO water is not the adequate water for Vallisneria and Ceylon-crypts. They may survive but they are not adequate to a blackwater environment.
2. Certainly, being accompagnied by Boraras is in principle a good idea for Paros. But it’s always a matter of what you want to achieve. The “survival of the fittest” in such a tank will result in slowly all young being eaten. Mind, that in the case of the Paros you are dealing with fish that are doomed to extinction. In my view this means at the first hand trying to propagate them, not to buy enough wild-caught to arrange a nice community tank. But maybe this is a somewhat extrem opinion. If you think that to an end consequently you should add Luciocephalus and even Channa to your community. An aquarium always has a structure which omits several important features of a natural community.
3. No young Paro will feed for about four to six weeks on Grindal worms. You will need Rotatoriae at best, or Paramecium as second best, maybe you are lucky with the smallest Artemia naupliae, the California type. Most Artemia are too big in the beginning.
4. Paros in small breeding tanks are no “lazy captive fish”. They have been givven the chance to propagate; a chance which is very small in your set-up.
But do it like you want; I wish you success. You wanted to hear my opinion.
I did, and still do appreciate the comments, and in days to come if first few spawns fail I will get them their own 20 liters cube, or two if my father will be willing to participate in project.
These Paros are not wild ones. They are aquarium bred and I would never risk such a setup with F0 fish. I want to breed them, but I also want to see for myself how this community works. If, and only if, it is succesfull, than I will be overwhelemed with joy. If it fails – not a big problem, becose I will be able to match them and find the best pair suited for breeding. I could probably even try to create a rotation breedery, where I could breed a pair intesively for some time, than allow them to take a ‘longer vacation’ in a community tank.
I believe that this bigger tank is a good place to let them grow, learn their share of survival and then allow fish with proper behaviour to breed and – eventually – sell/give them to people willing, and able. Male who had to endure harsher conditions in a community tank should be better at bringing more fry up.
Wouldn’t a male able to raise offspring in such an aquarium be far more precious to the community as whole than those who aren’t?It will be also usefull for studying them, and their behaviour.
I believe, that whatever happens it is a win-win situation.
Sverting,
Your ideas sound interesting, but are not well grounded. Try keeping them as you wish but the purpose of this Forum is to help insure the survival of the species. If your fish try to spawn and fail in a large multi species aquarium the term “not a big problem” is indeed a problem.
You yourself are starting with tank raised fish so aren’t you starting with “lazy” fish? You might be confusing “lazy” with “tank adapted” fish or possibly “inbred” fish, which even happens in nature, in small pools and streams to some degree.
The people here on the Forum (many of them) are mostly well experienced breeders and their advice should be heeded for success in breeding.
A biotope enviroment as you you choose to do would be wonderful,but without listening to hose with experience you may be starting over again, through the failures that others have gone thru.
Please, I don’t want to discourage you at all, but also try to listen to those that give you advice on tank setups and spawning do’s and don’ts.
Your desires on keeping them is a noble one and I wish you luck.Hello Everyone, those Parosphromenus sp.”Sentang” (correct is “Blue Line” – my mistake ) Sverting will get from me. I presented my Paros on our Cichlidae (!) forum and few people were intrested to keep them. I thought that it may be very similar begining with paros comparing to my..:) I also wanted to keep paros with some others (Sphaerythis, and even copella….) but very soon I saw that it isn’t a good way..
And now, after almost two years I breeding them regularly and I didn’t loose any of them !… And what is more important – I want to have another ones !!!
So, Sverting’s beginning look MUCH more profesional than mine, and that’s why I will sent to Him 8x Parosphromenus sp. “Blue Line” without any fear 🙂 – He will understand that keeping Paros is not one of regular thing – it is a mission! 🙂
Best regards!
Of course. If I was to succesfully breed Paros, then I will present them on the Uppersilesian Aquaristic Association, so don’t make me the devil of the hobby ;] I’ll most gladly contribute to the cause, but I will do it on my terms and in my way.
Whichever way I will go, I’ll make sure, that the aquarists of Upper Silesia will now about the fish, and surely, some will also try keeping and breeding them.
Btw, I added oak leaves and right now it became a real Black Water tank. Gh i around 6 right now, with the corresponding pH. The tank is peacefull and ready to house Paros. ANd as I said, if I were to face defeat on my terms, then I will try doing it your way, but not the other way around.
As to the fish. Photos made by Marcin are something, that keeps me waiting for young Parosphromenes since I first saw them. I made them a forstress, and if it falls, than it will be my defeat. If it comes to that, than I will try to dedicate up to 3 smaller tanks to breed them enough to atone for my mistakes. So don’t worry. I won’t make a dent in your mission.
Sverting, I wish you all success. If you are successful, then something very valuable will result: New experience for some advanced methods.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.