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[quote=”bartian” post=2906]
@Cranes
Sounds like a spectacular view! It’s a pity they don’t come over the Netherlands… Only geese here, and never more than a few dozens.[/quote]Short OT: For all who aren’t so lucky to be able to watch the cranes on their way ……
(Turn on your speakers)No photos from my side for now. But I have 18 (!) unspecified Paros here now. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell from catching them, the by far bigger part seem to be males.
Hm ……….. that’s a problem indeed – you said that you actually have not much aquarium space. Did you have to take all of them ’cause you ordered them? Or did you want to save probable gunawani for the paro friends and bought them in advance? (Which would be a very nice intention!). As I said before (see my PN) – I take up to four – but please – not only males! (I already have a tank with three lonely females ………….and I do not have room to spare, too)
It would be really great if you could show us some photos ……………..
Actually, I took all 18 in order to have more time to observe them and to decide which to keep.
My dealer is very easy going here: He will take any fish back that I cannot forward to you or keep myself.
So there’s no risk.Now I want to give them some rest from travelling and crowded shop-tanks.
Then it might be easier to tell, what species it is (or are?) and how many males there are.No pictures yet!
Michael
[quote=”M. Kotzulla” post=2913]Actually, I took all 18 in order to have more time to observe them and to decide which to keep.
My dealer is very easy going here: He will take any fish back that I cannot forward to you or keep myself.
So there’s no risk.
[/quote]Ah – that’s good to hear. Then it’s quite good that you have all 18! We are patiently looking forward to see some pictures of relaxed fish ………..
A little update – but still no pictures:
As I brought the 18 fish to my fully-planted 60litres tank (together with six half-grown Sph. osphromenoides only), I can’t see more than six to eight fish at a time. And, despite of one or two rather dominant males, they still don’t show very much color.
But as far as I can say, it seem to be
- (a) 90%+ males 🙁
- (b) more than one species (until now, only one male (not the dominant) shows a sumatranus-spot in the dorsal
and
But as the fish are still rather small (around 2cm) it might take some time to verify this.
To be continued….
Michael
It might as well be the same batch as my sumatranus come from then. There were three species in the tank: bintan, sumatranus and a third, unidentified species with a stout body, short rounded fins and somewhat different fin colouration. Do you recognise that description?
That’s interesting, Bartian: three species, obviously all of them originating from Sumatra (indicated by the sumatranus, which are rarely exported). This may be a hint that the locations of the catches are not those of the usual “blue line” and spec. Sentang, and this could strengthen the hypothesis that gunawani is/was one of the three.
Surely, sumatranus are very interesting themselves, since the species is unique in its courtship behaviour with vertical postures in both (!) sexes, far more extreme than that of the both species ornaticauda and parvulus. As we wrote in the Hallmann/Finke book, I think this is an extremely interesting species from the phylogenetic point of view, and from that of evolutionary relationships to the other Paros, too. In any case, we should try to build a bigger stock again in our project! Those of us who can get hold of one or two pairs should breed them at any rate.
But your description of the third form is the most interesting of all: “stout body, shorter fins and somewhat different colouration”. This seems to indicate gunawani, indeed. Therefore, we should try to get hold of all individuals. There should be both males and females, however, differentiated in the usual way by the more pointed dorsal of the males and the colourless fins of the females.
It is to be assumed that the mix has been performed in Sumatra already by the catchers who caught fish in different habitats und threw them together into one batch in order to enlarge the numbers and without realizing that it were different species. They often do so, but it is rarely this clear that different species are involved.
It is further to be assumed that this mixture will appear more or less everywhere in Europe where fish of this import are sold in pet shops. For instance, the fish that Michael Kotzulla bought in Germany are probably belonging to different species, too. I should not exclude the same for the fish of Helene and others.
So, your description seems to indicate that there have been real gunawani in this import. It’s a pity that this has not been detected by Ruinemans (and possible other resellers) in order to separate them and maximize the individuals of each species. So, the result is probably a mixture everywhere and the possibility of getting pure gunawani and pure sumatranus was minimized.
A small but interesting fact is that my fish were ordered as filamentosus…
Is it possible to differentiate the females?
That is strange indeed. P. filamentosus is not a Sumatranian form but one from Kalimantan. This should be a mistake of the importer, not the exporter.
Yes, it is possible to differentiate the females of gunawani and filamentosus but for certain in courtship behaviour only. If not in courtship, it is the distinctly stouter body structure only that indicates gunawani. In courtship, the female filamentosus assume prominent colours in the unpaired dorsal and anal, namely rather broad brown bands that are very distinctive.
But I think this will not help you very much in the normal everyday appearance. There, these bands are not to be seen at all. In this case its the stout body form of gunawani only that would separate both.
It was actually the exporter who listed it this way.
Thanks, but I meant between bintan and gunawani. I wasn’t very clear.
One thing which to me would indicate that there also is a connection from the fish in Denmark to the ones you are talking about is the fact that they were put on sale under the name p. gunawani.
This has never happened in Denmark, I am sure my local shop had no idea that there was a fish by this name.
And also this shop often has fish from Ruineman in Holland.No good news from my side:
Within less than 20 hours, about half the fish got visibly sick!
What looks like a heavy fungus infestation all over the fish’s bodies appeared rather quick: After not seeing any sik fish yesterday evening, when I came home today, I found two fish dead and five very close to death. All this seven fish looked like wearing a white fur coat.Now, after ‘catching’ the nearly-deads (which I killed in cooking water), only few fish are still visible – one of them also showing a fungi area. I tried to catch this one, too, but couldn’t. And I think, it’s not necessary anyway because all fish will be infected already and the ones showing no sickness now, hopefully will stay fine…
What I don’t understand is, why the sickness breaks out so late. I meen: No losses in my retailers tanks and no losses in my tank during the first days after arrival.
Unfortunately, I haven’t put the fish into a quarantine tank when I got them. Now, in a fully planted tank together with young Sph. osphromenoides, I’m not quite sure how to treat them.
I’m not very used to wild-caught fish and I’m absolutely not used to fish sicknesses. So I’m rather shocked now, having lost so many valuable fish.
Tommorow, I will try to take a picture of the remaining sick fish. (Unfortunately, I haven’t thought of taking pictures when I catched the half-deads…). But I guess someone here will be able to tell me what sickness that is and what I shall do. As far as I know, salt (NaCl) could work here? But how much? I’ve read of about 5g per litre? And where shall I apply the salt? In the regular tank? Or shall I transfer all (visibly sick) fish to a treatment tank?
Any helpful advice is welcome!
Michael
Hello, Michael,
that’s very sad ……….. Unfortunately, none of the experts of this forum seems to be online – no answer for the last 50 minutes.
So I hope my not so experienced advice is not totally wrong: To me it sounds like Oodinium. Peter Finke and Martin Hallmann in their new book give the advice to use Spirohexol (only tablets, no fluid) against Oodinium – although it’s a remedy against intestinal flagellates. I have tried it with my Badis, and it worked. It’s Spirohexol by the brand JBL. Hope I’m right with this advice.Addition: As far as I know a slow (!!) rise of the water temperature up to 30 °C is also recommended.
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