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Yes, it might be the ominous Oodinium desease. (‘Ominous’ to me because I read a lot of this desease especially with anabantoids, but never really witnessed it with my fish. – But as I said: Wild-caughts are rather new to me.) But if it is Oodiunium, it’s a rather acute outbreak with not only some spots in he fins etc. but the whole fish covered in white ‘fur’. And all this within a few hours.
This morning, again I found at least two fish with visible infection, but these were fit enough to flee right away.
Waiting for some more advice, I will try to get me the JBL Spirohexol you mentioned. So thank you for this suggestion (would have consulted Peter’s and Martin’s book, too. But, unfortunately, I lent it to a friend some days ago.)
Oodinium is the most perilous fish disease with Parosphromenus. The problem is that the spots are very small, much smaller than Ichthyophtirius. Therefore, it is mostly detected too late for being treated properly. In fact, many wild caught fish are infected by the stress of being transferred from one container to the other without being fed properly for weeks. But in the first weeks the infection is very difficult to be seen at all. It needs best lighting to observe the fine powder-like appearance of a stricken individual. Mostly people react too late when the disease has become obvious. Therefore, we had a practice that was used by most ambitious breeders for years: to treat new fish in advance with 2-amino-5-nitrithiazol; but this will not longer work if you are unable to get hold of the fresh (!) substance itself(see below).
In Michael’s description it is not clear to me whether it is a very late and heavy infection with Oodinium or something else; it sounds rather like funghi, but it could nevertheless be heavy and lately observed Oodinium.
In that state it is nearly hopeless to get the fish healed again. The medicines normally sold for combatting Oodinium are mostly effective in very early stages only; they are of no help in intermediate or even late stages. The only efficient medicine we know of is 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol, a yellow power, which was sold as “Hexa-Ex” (by Tetra) or Spirohexol (by JBL) in a pressed solid form. It it becomes brown (after a few months, if not stocked properly in a refrigirator), you can throw it away; it has become ineffective. Since one or two years however they sell it in liquid form which is better to apply, but it is inefficient against Oodinium. So, at present we have no efficient medicine against Oodinium. The only thing we could try is to recognize the disease as early as possible and use salt and higher temperature at once for two weeks.
I am afraid, that this is no cosolation for Michael. I don’t see how his heavily infected fish could be helped for sure. Of course, you should try with salt and higher temperature rather than the usually sold medicines, but the outcome is open, I’m afraid.
Copper sulfate combined with NaCl works very well. If you also raise the temperature to slightly above 30 degrees, the white haze disappears ‘like snow in the sun’, as we use to say here. I forgot the exact amounts, but google will probably tell you.
[quote=”Peter Finke” post=2938]The only efficient medicine we know of is 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol, a yellow power, which was sold as “Hexa-Ex” (by Tetra) or Spirohexol (by JBL) in a pressed solid form. It it becomes brown (after a few months, if not stocked properly in a refrigirator), you can throw it away; it has become ineffective. Since one or two years however they sell it in liquid form which is better to apply, but it is inefficient against Oodinium. So, at present we have no efficient medicine against Oodinium. [/quote]
The Spirohexol tablets are still available, though not produced anymore by JBL. Google helps you find distributors.
Aminonitrothiazol (or 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol) is also said to be the agent in “Amtra Medic 5”. I couldn’t check this because the website of Amtra is not available at the moment.
[quote=”Peter Finke” post=2938]The only efficient medicine we know of is 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol, a yellow power, which was sold as “Hexa-Ex” (by Tetra) or Spirohexol (by JBL) in a pressed solid form.[/quote]
97% pure 2-amino-5-nitrothiazole powder is available from sigma aldrich in the UK and perhaps other scientific suppliers elsewhere –
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/133507?lang=en®ion=GB
Perhaps someone might be interested in purchasing and dissembling a quantity. I have not checked postage costs or any restrictions that may be in place.
There also appear to be several retailer sin the UK and Ireland still selling Spirohexol tablets –
http://www.seahorseaquariums.com/JBL-Spirohexol-20-Tablets//1510
http://www.coxwellaquatics.co.uk/jbl-spirohexol-920-p.asp
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-Spirohexol-20-tabs-Hole-in-head-disease-treatment-/280617092394How unfortunate for you, M.Kotzulla, thats sad.
I can only add a little to what has already been said.
I have recently bought the spirohexol tablets from the link Big Tom has posted SeahorseAquarium, – I have had correspondance with them not so long ago. They can still supply these tablets, but they will unfortunately run out.
They actually also said they would contact the jbl representative so I might have had some contact with them regarding the medicine, but this never happened. Maybe if someone else from UK would contact them and ask or explain our situation and our understanding of the tablets, they would be willing to take contact to JBL. Its really unfortunate that they have stopped.
I have tried the liquid, its not good.I would recommend that anyone with parosphromenus buy some of these tablets if you can get hold on them. If you have them in the refrigerator they will last some time. I have 3 bottles now, and I do use them now and again.
I would also say, as Peter, – it may or may not be odinium. It sounds like a heavy attact to develop so quick, – however, I have had fish that suddenly was really infected, – but I would never have called that in a ‘fungus’ kind of way. Its like a heavy blanket of small particles, not fungus like … so I am not quite sure about the diagnosis here.
I have however experienced that even heavily infected fish (with odinium) respond well to the spirohexol. Lastly I had some very small fry, that I suddenly discovered was quite attacted. I will post some photos here. They all recovered and are well.Just adding that the six I bought recently (supposed to be from the same batch as Kotzulla’s) are all fine, in fact they are quite lively and well.
Sometimes with wild caught fish the travel can make the difference, meaning how long they stay under stressfull conditions (bags somewhere, cold temperatures etc)Thank your for your replies and the pictures!
I already found some photos of fish with Oodinium, too – and I am quite sure that my fish do nhot have Oodinium but, as Peter assumed, some heavy funghi infestation!: No white spots but the mentioned white, fur-like cover that absolutely looks like funghi to me.
So on the one hand, I’m relieved now to not have Oodinium in my tank. On the other hand, I still have this very acute funghi problem – and I am really afraid of the sight that is awaiting me at home.
With kind regards and fingers crossed,
MichaelBig Tom, very good! This is exactly the substance which is very helpful with Oodinium and – as far as we know – without any noxious effects, even if taken in the the double amount. And Aldrich is exactly the company which we got the substance from in Germany too. You only have to mind three things:
[i]1. You need very small amounts. Take the smallest bottle they offer.
2. You must store it in the refrigerator. In normal room atmosphere you can throw it away after three months.
3. The fresh substance is a light yellow powder. In the aging process, it becomes a dark yellow and at last brown and dark brown. When it has a brownish tinge, you can forget it. It will no longer be useful. So keep it fresh by storing it cold.
[/i]
Your information is very helpful for all people, especially in the U.S., wo formerly asked for “Hexa-Ex” or “Spirohexol”. As I told in that other posting before, one can forget the new liquid forms sold bearing those names. The best is to use that powder, dissolve a knife’s tip in water and give it in the aquarium. We never experienced any harm.But do that early enough. Prevention with new fish is good. In later stages of Oodinium even that forveful substance will not ne able to help sufficiently.
As I said before, it is still no problem to get the tablets of Spirohexol in Germany. Try Google, you’ll get some shops which still sell it. Or try eB.. – I got four results today.
What can I say? As far as I can tell by looking into my tank, all but one (!) of the 18 imported Paros seem to have died. (I’m sure for eight fish, the rest just disappeared.) An three of the six young Sph. osphromenoides inhabiting the same tank died as well.
Surprizingly, the remaining one male Paro spec. and three Sph. osphromenoides show not the slightest funghi infestation.
So for me, the issue of P. gunawani (or sumatranus, or both, or etc.) at Ruinemans ended with a total fiasco.
Hopefully, Helene has more luck with whatever fish she got there! Maybe she has more than one species, too, and maybe one turns out to be P. gunawani!?thats really sad with this experience for you.
Maybe my fish are not from the same, although as I said its a bit strange that they too were called p.gunawani – these have never been for sale in Denmark before.And coming from Holland as well.
But my fish are fine, – but they are not p.gunawani, I am quite sure about that.
It will be as mentioned earlier here a bintan type, –
As far as I can see its could well be the same species, – some younger than others, theres one dominant male which shows good colours, and two not dominant males with very pale and uncertain colours yet.
And I am quite sure there are females as well 🙂 – so we will see in a while what will turn out of these.Dear Michael, thank you for openly speaking of your bad experiences. Most people like to speak about positive issues only, the disappointments are treated with silence. But for all other people it is very useful if one is bold enough to speak about those, too. Therefore congratulations to your openness.
I have only one wish: that you stay to your love of these small brilliant fish. It is easy to abandon a special interest after having made such a bad experience, but I want to encourage you not to do so and stay.
One could learn from it that all wild caught fish could be ill but one is simply unable to see it from the beginning. It might have been the same to me. Therefore, to take precautions is very unseful: generally put a small amount of 2-amino-5-nitrothiazol in a tank with newly adopted fish. Often, in the very beginning, it can stop the development of several diseases. The more early it is used, the more effective it can be.
Stay! Peter
Hi Peter,
hi all.Of course I stay – with both Paros and the Paro Project!
I still have 3.3 P. nagyi swimming – and they do really fine.So the gunawani-experience was not a nice one. But this would never be a reason to me to abandon this great small fish.
Still part of the P-P:
MichaelNews from my local dealer: P. gunawani, nagyi, and (of course) deissneri at Ruinemans…
Here the links to Ruineman’s
The images there seem to be of no real help. But I’m not a specialist in the identification of Paro species anyway.
After our latest experience with P. gunawani from Ruinemans I guess this is some other species again?!?
Not to mention the “deissneri”, I think the only belivable labelling shoulg be P. nagyi.Kind regards,
Michael
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