- This topic has 54 replies, 9 voices, and was last updated 9 years, 3 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hello,
although my photos are neither perfect nor pin-sharp, I would like to show some.
I couldn’t find too many pictures of the P. nagyi form “Pekan Nenasi” so far – so I hope it is alright to present some here and now. I promise – I’ll try to improve!!The male – showing a proper tail fin colouration by now:
Stefanie, very good indeed. That’s the first photos we have of the Pekan-Nenasi-males, and it shows clearly that it is not of the Cherating- but more of the Kuantan-type. In the two last photos we see very clearly that the rays of the caudal fin extend rather longly from the fin’s end, so that the fin itself appears to be short. That is not as obvious like this in the Cheratibg-type. And the colour of the stripe in the caudal is whitish as opposed to blueish in the Cherating-type. So the Pekan-Nenasi-type is much closer to Kuantan than to Cherating.
Something else has caught my eye: I have never noticed – on any of the P. nagyi photos I have seen – that the male’s chin and throat is also shimmering in the same iridescent emerald green as the pectoral fins. I just noticed it on some photos of my male. The colouration reaches the ends of the gil covers.
Is this a feature in all nagyi-males, or is it only to be seen in the Pekan Nenasi form?
These are wonderful photoes, Stefanie. I would like to use them at the species page for Nagyi with your credentials 🙂 .. will you give your permission for that ?
[quote=”helene” post=1482]These are wonderful photoes, Stefanie. I would like to use them at the species page for Nagyi with your credentials 🙂 .. will you give your permission for that ?[/quote]
With pleasure!
May I repeat my question from post 1474 in this thread?
Today again I recognized that the lower half of the horizontally divided body colouration of the male is not black, as described. It seems to be black when not illuminated in the right angle – but it is as iridiscent as the pectoral fins actually.
You can suggestively see this on the last three pictures in post 1480.Here are two more photos, not quite sharp – but you can see well enough what I mean:
I haven’t seen this on any of the nagyi-pictures I have seen yet – and I didn’t find it mentioned in any of the descriptions I’ve read.
Is this a feature only of the form from Pekan Nenasi – or do all nagyi-males show this?Oh – I just see it’s only a few minutes til the turn of the year.
Let me wish you a happy and healthy New Year 2013!!!
It appears to be the same as in my Betta strohi. It is mostly black/brown but when angry it gets blue and shiny from a certain angle.
I have never kept P. nagyi so I can’t tell anything about this being special or not.
There are at least three problems hidden in your question respectively observation.
The first is the light. All colours are partly products of light, they need light to be realized by those who should realize them (and by those who should not, the enemies). The intensity of light, the angle or direction of light respectively the body of the fish towards the light and the spectral composition of the light, its kelvin-type: all this changes the appearance of a fish that is accustomed by evolution to dark peat streams in rainforests. They are in need of the occasional sun beam and therefore turn their bodies and fins just for catching them. In the aquarium we have a steady light source of a steady composition and it is often too bright. We, the observer, see the colours from a fixed sidely angle and we see them according to our eyes and physical means of viewing them.
The second problem is that there are two types of colours. Those that are produced by pigments and those that are produced by structure. The red of our European Robin is of the first type; it is permanently to be seen from many angles and a bit dull. The blue of our European Bluethroat is of the second type: There is no blue pigment at all, but a special structure of the feathers. Being hit by light in special angles it appears strikingly and glitteringly blue. We have both types with the licorice. In their mostly to be seen normal appearance we mainly see its pigmentally caused colours. This includes the “black” of the lower part of the male nagyi-body. But in special situations and light-angles you see a second type of colours which is normally hidden by the pigments and the steady angle of light, and it is cause by the structure of the scales and scutes of the fish. That is the greenish or blueish tinge you decribe as appearing in certain special situations on the gills, the throat, in the fins.
But there is a third problem too, and it is the most interesting. There are not only two colour types and two appearances of a licorice gouramy – the dull normal colouring and the striking colouring in courtship and display – but there are more. One very effective colouring is that for aggression which intensifies the main colours distinctly. You can provoke it by using a mirror. There are some photos of licorice gouramies in this aggressive mood that have become possible by use of this means. And there is the colouring caused by situations of fear: a more scattered picture of a reduced apperance of the usual stripes mixed with vertical structures (reminding a bit at the colours of the offspring that especially must be prevented from being found by hungry other fish and kingfishers!). There are many photos showing us our fish coloured like this. Most photos taken shortly after the catch from the natural habitat are of this type. Many photos showing them in special photo-tanks without enough structures to hide and the light being too bright either. In the aquarium we don’t see this type very often since we omit the aggressors from the small tanks and the fish become rather quickly used to its permanent outfit and structure.
At least these four types of colouring must be distinguished. And we often see a certain mixture of all of them, at least for some seconds before it changes to one clear type. It is one of the problems of the many photos of our fish that they mix all these types and show them in different situations, often dominated by the duller types, but sometimes mingled with the striking colours of display and aggression, too. Many new friends send us photos and ask: What species is that? From those photos it is often impossible to say, not only because there are these many bintan-like forms in trade or because we see females or males in their normal appearance, but often because we see fish not yet grown up or not yet accustomed to their new home.
Good Morning,
and thank you, Peter.
I know the differences between pigment and structural colouration from ornithology (e.g.,hummingbirds are a wonderful example for structural colours).
Thus, I’m afraid, your post doesn’t answer my question ….. :unsure: It was not “why” is my male coloured like this – but is this colouration known for P. nagyi, at least for the form Pekan Nenasi? I have not seen it mentioned anywhere – maybe it should be added to the description. And – is it unique in Pekan Nenasi, or do the forms from Cherating and Kuantan also show it?
Stefanie, I did not want to teach you things you know; excuse me. But mind that there are many readers of our forum who do not know these things. I (and you) must be aware of them when writing things here.
But you are right: I did not reply to your main question: Is that type of colouring at the throat and head of the Pekan Nenasi type of male nagyi specific for that type?
The answer is: no. The other types show these colours too. Maybe there are some faint differences but they are not as striking as one could imagine and as would be a reason for mentioning this soecially with Pekan Nenasi.
But you have another question: Is it not necessary to include this into the species descriptions?
The asnwer is: Partly it is mentioned, if you mean the original desription of nagyi bei Dietrich Schaller 1985. But: That is a short description. For modern standards it is too short. It is not as short as the descriptions of harveyi and allani bei Barbara Brown (which, in a way, are no descriptions at all, only announcements of descriptions that never followed). But the rule is: The first descritions is valid, and so are that of Brown and that of Schaller.
But there is another thing to be said: The description of the colour of a new species must not be “complete” but it needs only to mention the distinguishing markers that make the species a difference to other species formerly described. Take the latest descritions we have got, that of gunamwani and phoenicurus only some weeks ago by Schindler and Linke. Take only phoenicurus: Many of the striking colour features if that species are missing, are not mentioned at all. But that was not necessary. They confined themselves rightly to the distingushing markers.
But perhaps you did not think of the scientific desciptions but of the decriptions that I wrote for this homepage in the “species”-category. Well, I shall have a look on them again. But they have a clear intention: to help peoplce to identify their licorive gouramy, not to describe the colours as fully and comprehensive as possible. That would not add to identifiability. But, as I said, I shall have a new look on them. I shall not exclude that you pointed out a valuable thing.
I just read an article today by J. Vierke – you can see it here http://www.fischreisen.de/Parosphromenus_nagyi.html
One of the photoes is actually also part of our species describtion of P. nagyi.
If you look at the last photo in the article, does the fish not show actually the same as you are describing (at least in terms of the iridiscent that you see), Stefanie ?[quote=”helene” post=1496]
If you look at the last photo in the article, does the fish not show actually the same as you are describing (at least in terms of the iridiscent that you see), Stefanie ?[/quote]Yes, Helene, that’s right. That’s what I mean.
I think this feature is worth being mentioned.By the way: There’s something promising going on in my tank ……… Since the early morning my male showed the brightest display with continuous “sexy eyes”, while the female seemed much more interested and accommodating, and showing a more rounded belly.
Just half an hour ago I observed the male repeatedly fetching air from the surface and returning to a bambus cane lying on the ground, concealed with leaves. Then unexpectedly the female appeared out of the leaf litter and entered the bambus cane, followed by the male. And there they are ………
The female had changed her colouration, not into pale, but into a transparent golden bronze-brown without stripes.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.