P. tweediei (ruinemans 2013) questions!!!

[Rafael Eggli]

Hello everybody,

there is great news from my side but also a few questions concerning methods you use when raising paro-offspring.

As some of you know, I have recieved some of the “P. tweediei (ruinemans 2013)”- called species on whiches exact/correct identifications broad discussions have been led during the last months. I got them from Helene at the Hamburg-Meeting and I dont want to re-start this ciscussion…

Now I was on vacations right after the meeting and therefore, they were no that often fed. since I have been back for 3 weeks now, I fed them loads of artemia naupliae and even some of the last black mosquito larvae of the year which led to a quick growth and beautiful colors.

I thougth, they were still too small to mate but I checked the caves almost everyday now. This has prooved to be a great idea since today, I found some 30 eggs in one of the caves!!!
Since this variety is still rather weakly distributed and I want to provide offspring for other Aquarists, I would defenitely linke to raise as many of them as possible. Therefore, I think it is better to separate the eggs/larvae from their parents and the other Paros in that tank.

Now there you go:
At the moment, I see two options one of wich I would prefer.
I do have three currently used tanks with paros. One of them has so far housed 4 young P.linkei because I wanted to prevent them from being eaten by their parents when ethey were younger. O think, they are now old and large enough to be put back into their parents tank (25l, 4 adult linkei plus one younger that has raised by chance with the parents still in the tank. I would prefere to use this tank for the tweediei since this tank runs extremely stable and has a huge bunch of Java-moss where I think they could find plenty of micro-foods. I will also give them Paramecium.
On the other hand, I could change a 20 l tank in wich I currently have some Betta coccina into a paro tank.
Which option would you go for?
I think there is not going to be much of a problem with interbreeding or uncertainity about the species if the young linkei have already spawned since they do not look that similar to tweediei.
Also I would like to have some opinions concerning the time of the moving. Should I move the cave with the eggs asap or when they have already hatched but are still in the cave?

Thank you for your opinions…
All the best,
Rafael

[helene schoubye]

Congratulations, Rafael, – thats great to hear that they have spawned.

My answer to your question is another question: Why do you not think about moving the parents ??

I never move the fry, – I know you can do it, but I think it takes some practice and skill. At whatever stage the egggs or fry are very vulnerable to change in water, or to movements. I imagine it is really difficult to move the tubes or caves without eggs or fry slipping out.

I would always move the parents. To catch the female – with a little practice and a little patience should not be too difficult. I would catch her out first. Leave the male to guard the nest and when all fry has left move the male.
If you worry about moving and catching, leave both parents and keep an eye on when the fry is beginning to leave the cave. And then just catch the parents. Even if you create a turmoil catching, the fry will just seek cover somewhere, – they will survive.

That is my advice anyway, dont move the fry, move the parents.

[Rafael Eggli]

Hi Helene,

I hoped to hear from you!

Yes I also thought about this possibility but I see 2 concerns:

1. There are five tweediei in this tank – two of yours sadly died probably from the stress or so. So I would basically have to completely take out all the leaves, roota and plants etc.

2. I really think that the tank I would place the eggs in is probably the most stable and also the best biologically “self-sustainig” tank. I never had big algae problems or other troubles with it and I think the Moss is of great advantage for the youngsters…

But I also really see your point so I m a bit confused what to do…

However I would also like to hear other opportunities… Even though you are the profi for these exact animals, Helene 😉

Kind regards
Rafael

[Russell Green]

Hi Rapael.

Congratulations on the tweediei spawning.

When we were at Bernds fish room, he demonstrated how he moves the nest. I don’t know if you saw this?

Basically he used a small plastic tub, maybe 5cm deep and larger than the cave itself. He sank this in the aquarium to fill it with water, lifted the cave carefully into it, and removed the whole thing still full of water to his rearing aquarium.

I have done this and found it very successful. When I see eggs in a nest,I set up a small (5lt) aquarium with lots of java moss, and some old oak leaves from the parents aquarium. When the fry have darkened and are moving around in the cave, I remove it and the fry as described above.
I find it easier to control the amount of food in this small aquarium, anything uneaten can be seen and removed easily.

I have been successful by removing the parents as Helene suggests, but I personally prefer to remove the nest.

There doesn’t appear to be a right or wrong way, just personal preference.

Hope this helps, good luck.

Russ

[Jolanda Wisseborn]

Thanks Russ, for this tip

I wasn’t with the meeting but this will be also a great way for me to move the nests. I have 3 pairs now of Linkei, last September I did got 2 female’s xtra for the 2 other males. They all are paired up now, and got already some young in my big tank. Also running now, 2 extra 40 tanks for any new nests or young.
If there are eggs? Will they all hatch without any parents?

[Rafael Eggli]

Hi Russ,

Thank you for that post. This is the exact reason that made me think of that possibility. I am not yet sure about what I am going to do but I think I will defenitely try to separate eggs and adults from one another next friday. I hope this will work…

Jootjes question is really interesting… Will the eggs develop without the caring of their parents?

Have a nice evening,

Rafael

[Jolanda Wisseborn]

Well I ask this because I know betta’s keep their bubblenest up and take care of their fry.
And for instance ramirezi are waving their eggs and keep their fry in site and protect them.
So I do not know if paro’s do anything special to care for their eggs and what if the parents aren’t there??

[Russell Green]

It has been written within this forum by people far more experienced at breeding Parosphromenus than myself, that the male should always be left to tend to the nest.
The eggs will not hatch without his care. The young fry also need his care to develop in the first few days. Once they turn dark they appear to be strong enough to fend for themselves. I start feeding with small food ( banana worms) as soon as I move the nest.

In my experience, they darken and leave the nest within 3 to 5 days. I don’t know if this is dependant on what species, or other factors.

So Rafael, keep a close eye on their development , it may be quicker than you think.

[Jolanda Wisseborn]

Thanks Russ for your reply, so it’s keeping an eye on the fry until they darken 😉

[Peter Finke]

As we told at other places here in the website of the P-P or in the Finke-Hallmann-book, there are many different methods that have proven to be successful. The Bussler-method of taking the cave with the eggs or the young fry is only one, you can do just the opposite (take the adults out) or even leave everything at its place. The latter one is the most easy and interesting method, but a bit risky as long you do not know how the special pair behaves. But one should test that out. If they spawned once, they will spawn a second and a third time if good conditions prevail. It may go on for weeks. However: Do not think this will go on for months, and thnking next year they will spawn as they did this one maybe wrong. The causes why this may not be the case are not fully clear by now. It is a good advice to grow some offspring up as early as possible.

If you separate the clutch from the father, you renounce of the father’s care for the eggs and later on his care for the young larvae. This is by no means without meaning, especially in the small tank with stagnant water and nearly always many germs. Mostly, a part of the eggs fail to develop, become white and die and infect others. This is prevented by the father’s care very efficiently. So, Bernd’s method is possible, but do not part them too early.

[Jolanda Wisseborn]

Thank you also for your explaination Peter ,
I know some pairs of other fish will don’t give care anymore if you always remove the fry or eggs. So I’m shure I ‘m not ready yet with reading here 😉

[Bernd Bussler]

Now Bernd Bussler reports once on the subject.
The eggs of Paros have little change to evolve if they are not cared for by their parents. I really have tried everything, but from eggs whom I removed from their parents, I could only occasionally bring Jungparos to slip
When the boy fishes leave the nest is strongly dependent on the temperature at me about 26 ° C, which lasts 4 to 5 days, but I’ll take the den with pups out earlier. If they turn dark and no longer depend foam nest. There are of course other ways, for example, leave everything in the aquarium with their parents or take out the parents, both methods work, survive it definitely enough juveniles.
My method (Bussler method) I’m at as many kittens to get and move on to. Makes you not worry so much, as the main thing you have ever bred, showing the grooming her your Paros properly and if everyone repeatedly rears few Jungparos year we have done everything right and can get this wonderful little fish. 🙂

[Jolanda Wisseborn]

Thank you Bernd ( Danke Bernd)

Will take your advice to watch the fish as close as possible and special the nests, when there are eggs, gonna try to take the young fish out before they swim free. 😉

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