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Dear Lawrence, it’s fine that you had the opportunity to visit Germany, travel with Peter Beyer and visit Martin Hallmann. It’s a pity that there was only one imported species (a bintan-form) at Glaser’s in Rodgau (the centre of imports for Europe since decades); they use the names given by the exporters in Asia, but they will change it after the German experts have identified the fish, if they are able to. A pity that you could not visit Hamburg and see the stock of Bernd Bussler’s, who has at least twelve if not fourteen or fifteen species , some of them in good numbers. You wouldn’t have left him without offspring of less than five or eight species.
We are not sure that the second meeting of the project that was postulated by all visitors at Hamburg 2015 including those from overseas will be really possible in Britain, as we actively tried to arrange; Helene has travelled there and asked our friends for their opinion. The main disadvantage is that there would hardly more than two or three species be available for the participants. And the other suggestion to meet at Singapore would mean that there would be even less.
In view of that fact we serioulsy think about a second meeting of the project taking place in Hamburg again. Bernd would make it possible that all visitors who want to take Paros away could do so with et least ten or twelve species, including tweediei, parvulus (presently his stock is more than eighty individials), paludicola from different locations, harveyi, spec. Lundu (“Sungai Stunggang”) and others.
For me, it sounds ridiculous that a global project like our PP should meet at the same place for a second time; we did not think of that ever before. But maybe that’s a prejudice. Seen in clear light one must admit that presently there is no place on earth where you could see and get hold of more Paro-species than Bernd Bussler’s private breeding station in Hamburg.The consequence is this: In a few week’s time I shall write a newsletter to all members in all continents asking them what to do, telling this fact and offer the opportunity to arrange a second meeting maybe next year at exact the same place we had that in 2015: Hamburg, the same hotel, and the same offer: to visit Bernd Bussler’s breeding station and carry as many fish away as people would like to do. But I must ask another question: Would you, or someone living in Poland or in France or in Ireland or in the U.S. or in Malaysia or in Japan really t r y to come to Hamburg, again or for the first time? Nobody can tell this definitely by now, but we must have an impression of the understanding of our argument and the serious interest in our solution. Or should we meet elsewhere in spite of the lack of Paros?
What do you think? Would you try to come? Or would you think that the availability of Paros is of minor interest and there would be a preference for the global aspect of the PP?Thank you Peter for all of this information and ideas.
My answer to your question is the following: I would try to participate in Hamburg or anywhere else in Germany, Netherlands, Great Britain, France, or Belgium if I got lucky with the timing and could combine the visit with a business trip (as I did on my recent trip to Freiburg). My job requires me to pass through Amsterdam or london about 12 days a year, so there’s a decent chance that the stars will align for me, and I’ll try to attend. But i’ll need some luck.
For me the possibility of meeting Bussler, seeing his set-up, and getting some parvulus or paludicola or ornaticauda would make a visit to Hamburg quite attractive, so that sounds great to me. I’m sure everyone will be attracted to the idea of accessing new species, and this diaspora of the species will serve the project’s purpose — putting these precious eggs in many baskets (hopefully some of them good breeders) to increase their chances of survival. Of course, Hamburg wouldn’t be repetitions for me because I missed the last meeting there. Little said it was fantastic. And wherever the meeting is held, it will be wonderful to meet you and Bussler and Linke, if possible. And hopefully see Hallmann and Beyer again.Peter,
If I can help in the discussion on where to hold the next conference. My suggestion would be to hold it in Hamburg again on this next occasion and in the meantime we could all work together on another venue for the third conference. Germany is in the forefront of keeping and breeding Parosphromenus.I did think about Dublin, however I had to quickly dismiss the thought. We just don’t have sufficient breeders or keepers in Ireland. Currently I am only aware of two people that have any Paro and one of them is myself. Two other people are extremely keen to get Paro and breed them and are currently waiting for fish.
Can I ask anyone that attended the last conference in Hamburg what the situation was for returning to the UK with fish from Hamburg? Are licences etc required? It appears from preliminary questioning that only myself (disability permitting) would be willing to attend anywhere other than the UK or Ireland if bringing back fish on the flight would cause problems. Personally I would be attending for educational reasons and returning with fish would be a huge bonus.
Having said all that, should members merely want a change of venue I’m sure I could find someplace in Ireland to hold it, but it would mean little to no fish to be bought here. No Paro set-ups to visit etc. We can only offer a friendly welcome. The expertise, talks, slideshows and fish would have to be brought with you.
An alternative that I thought of is, could someone liaise with Anabantoid Association of Great Britain and possible share a combined conference with them one year.
BillHello, I was present on our first International PP meeting in Hamburg and I was very happy about possibility of increase my Paros stock.
Visiting of Bernd’s paro breeding station was also fascinating. In other countries we could have a warm welcome, nice views even good beer 🙂 But we will definitely not has Paros and Bernd’s house ..:)
So In my opinion – Hamburg, Germany is the best locality ..I have also one more thing .. Does IGL has meeting also in Hamburg next year ..? Meeting together with them was also good opportunity to buy other interesting fishes and listen to very intresting presentations ..
Dear Bill and Martin, thank you for your votes. I need a week of holidays in the Netherlands, but afterwards Helen and I shall ask all members in a newsletter for their opinion. Because we must know a certain magnitude of the interest to really come.
No, the IGL will not meet in Hamburg next year. But we could probably arrange the availability of certain Non-Paro-fishes, if the species and quantities are clearly ordered in time. But this is no issue now.
Hi all.
Having travelled to Hamburg for the last meeting, my vote would be to hold it there again for at least one more time.
It was obvious that Germany is the centre for Parosphromenus breeding and availability, and easy to get to from many other countries.
To answer Bills questions about returning to the UK with fish from the meeting, I can only tell you of John and myselfs experience.
As well as meeting and learning from far more experienced and knowledgeable paro keepers, we wanted to bring as many species as possible back to the UK. There are two ways for us to get to Hamburg. We could drive and get the ferry, or we could fly direct.
We initially looked at the ferry, as this would have enabled us to bring back as many fish as we liked, packaged correctly and with little chance of being stopped at customs. The cost however, was very high. £250+ for the return crossing, plus fuel and possibly overnight accommodation as well . With this cost plus the length of the drive, we ruled this out quickly.
There are only two airlines that will transport live fish into the UK from Germany, BA and lufthansa. Both of these only fly into Heathrow, a long drive again for us, butwe could have done it. However the cost to do this legally with relevant paperwork was more expensive than the entire cost of the ferry option. Again, not an option.
We decided to fly and risk bringing back the fish in our hold luggage and hope they wouldn’t get detected at customs. We packed the fish into a small insulated picnic box, and packed this into a small suitcase. Because of the strict rules about carrying liquids on aircraft now, we were extremely worried about them being detected and confiscated. After a very nervous flight and trip through customs, we did manage to get them through .
This would be one of the major problems with holding a meeting in the UK. If our German breeders wanted to bring in fish for distributing, then they would have to go through all of this. Then afterward, everyone taking fish back out of the UK would have to go through the same thing as well . As you can see, its not easy or cheap, and the risk of fish being detected and confiscated on flights is high.
IHi Russ,
Thanks for that clear explanation. But it opens up other important questions. I myself am in favour of holding the next meet in Germany, I look on Germany as being the centre of Parosphromenus breeding and science in Europe if not the world. However, it appears from what little canvassing I’ve done in Ireland there is a reluctance to attend if it means fish can’t be brought back.
Could you tell me where the paperwork and expense was to be found? Was it with the airline or customs?
If it was down to customs then it would be very easy for me to fulfill and clear that obstacle. I have a licence and am registered to import plants from around the world. Now I know it is for plants and doesn’t cover me for live fish, but that is just another step in the bureaucracy of red-tape and shouldn’t cause a problem in getting it sorted. Having also, at one time, imported plants into the UK I am aware that the costs of doing so has become very prohibitive in comparison to Ireland. Anyway, I’m in the process of looking into this and will keep everyone updated on it. If the expense is down to customs then I see this as merely adding around €1.00 or perhaps €2.00 to the price of a fish. The only other expense I can imagine is that Customs in Ireland may wish to see a health certificate issued by a German Veterinary to state that the fish are free from certain disease.
How do Transshippers of fish operate in the UK? As far as I can see if I used a transshipper in the UK to bring in a pair of fish from Malaysia or elsewhere then I would pay $5.00 for shipping each fish then pay the transshipper whatever postage charges are from them to me and pay the exporter the price of the fish.
Bill
Hi Bill,
the problem (for the UK at least)is that the airlines refuse to carry them. Customs is not a big issue, but to comply with customs you have to forewarn which flight is bringing in the fish.
It is these considerations which have led to people simply ‘smuggling’ in the fish in their hold luggage. However, if one was prepared to drive across the relevant borders then all is legal and above board.john
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