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It has been decided to refer to the new paros I received from The Cichlid Exchange as P. spec. “TCE 2015”.
The “TCE” portion of the name refers to, and is an acronym for, “The Cichlid Exchange”. Therefore I have created this new thread in which I’ll post any new comments or photos. The previous thread: P. sp. aff. phoenicurus/aff.tweediei has some initial comments and photos, but that will no longer be used moving forward.A pair in display during feeding time
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/tSk4EC.jpg[/IMG]A portrait of the male
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/911/LOw8AN.jpg[/IMG]Here is a brief video showing the male and one of the females feeding and displaying. I think this could be a future spawning pair, as these two always seem to be together, whereas the other females are kept hiding away by the male to a greater extent. The first portion of the video is taken with diffuse overhead lighting only, and I notice the male looks to be only black and white – with the glowing fin edges and metallic opercules showing strongly in contrast to the rest of the dark body.
Also notice the black tones in the females unpaired fins, especially the pelvic fins (see photos below) – this was a new color pattern in a female paro, to my knowledge. So a video can help to show different characteristics that a photo might not always capture.
The last segment of the video shows the displaying pair with side lighting, showing more of the colorful fins – truly a beautiful animal!
https://youtu.be/PeoLlCTcT8YA photo captured from the video showing female color pattern
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/X069Ox.jpg[/IMG]Close-up of female showing brownish and red tones in unpaired fins – these intensify during display.
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/912/Om0Shb.jpg[/IMG]Two females – one with more red color in it’s unpaired fins
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/W5ZcLF.jpg[/IMG]Pair feeding – still photo taken as the same time as the video
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/zRHOzp.jpg[/IMG]The displaying pair
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/LWsJ2T.jpg[/IMG][quote=”Ekona” post=5007]
Also notice the black tones in the females unpaired fins, especially the pelvic fins (see photos below) – this was a new color pattern in a female paro, to my knowledge. So a video can help to show different characteristics that a photo might not always capture.[/quote]No, I don’t think that this is a feature not known in female paros. My P. nagyi female also shows very dark unpaired fins in full mating display, and the pelvic fin shows a black band at the outer rim. I don’t have a real good photo, but maybe you see what I mean on this one:
Very nice pictures again, Ekona!!
My words didn’t quite express my thought, Stefanie, I must apologize – I meant to say, as far as my knowledge (or my experience or reading, etc.) I have not been aware that females get those black pelvic fins, that is, this is the first time I’ve been aware of it
(not that it never happens) 🙂 . But I have not kept that many paros, so my knowledge is very limited. Interesting that your Nagyi female does get the dark fins, and thanks for posting that photo. That is a very beautiful combination of colors in that female! What population is that?I think my nagyi female has clear lower fins most all the time (there are definite, but rather faint red colors in her dorsal fin – but not nearly as extensive as in your female).
Here she is right at the peak of pre-spawn displaying – the fins appear to be almost colorless.
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/j4vHSe.jpg[/IMG]– so there is some kind of variation, it seems between these individuals or is it populations? But this is why I wanted to show the female colors, as this is as important as the male colors.
Ah, I see, Ekona.
Yes, I agree that the colouration of the females during display should be regarded with more interest, here one might see differences that otherwise can not be seen.I already posted some photos of the courtship of my P. nagyi from Pekan Nenas a while ago – here you can see how dark the unpaired fins of my female become.
Stefanie, thanks for the link – the Pekan Nenasi is a very distinctive form of nagyi. Would you say the metallic bands are mostly golden in color? It looks that way from the photos, but sometimes, as we know, it’s hard to tell because of the camera, lighting and the like. And, I now recall reading your thread about them, but that was early on, before I really knew what I was looking at. I recall focusing only on the male, because of it’s bright colors and not really noticing the characteristics of the female coloration. However, because of my observations of my fish, I learned something and now can go back and revisit your thread and learn again. This is only possible because of your documentation, and this is why this forum, and all the information it’s members post, is such a valuable resource!
Regards,
DavidEkona, I posted some more photos of my nagyi in the nagyi-thread – just to show how different the colouration of one male looks under different circumstances. Most of the time when I watch the fish they seem to be greenish-golden, like in my avatar.
I do not want to disturb your thread with other species and to become too much OT.
It is fully justified to pay more attention to female colouring. The present state of affairs – that male courtship colouration is the decisive factor for species determination – is too much simplified a rule. Essentially it goes back to the limited experience of taxonomists. It is not wrong, but it does not mean that females show no colours in their fins at all.
For instance P. filamentosus females have rather strong markings they show during the pike of display and egg laying in their unpaired fins. Similarly P. tweediei females could show rather clear reddish-brown markings in that situations. In other species similar colour changes are often not very clear to be seen, but they are to be seen. With some species the changes are even more spectacular, f.i. with P. quindecim oder the two slim species.
It would be a real progress if we could gather good photos of all females of our genus, displaying such markings and changes, that in normal colouration are not or nearly not to be seen.
[quote=”Peter Finke” post=5015]…Similarly P. tweediei females could show rather clear reddish-brown markings in that situations.[/quote]
This is an interesting fact – perhaps this characteristic, observed in the pictured female that is often displaying to the male, is one clue as to the identity of this fish. In the absence of a known collecting location, can this characteristic provide information that links these fish more closely to P. tweediei? Clearly, the female unpaired and pelvic fins show areas of chocolate-brown to black coloration. There appears to be dark brown marginal bands in the dorsal and anal fins. (Also red coloration to varying degrees appears throughout the unpaired fins. In the caudal fin, the red colors seem to be concentrated toward the base of the caudal fin and not toward the distal margins, which remain colorless). Also note the presence of metallic coloration along the edges of the membranes between the tips for the spinous rays of the dorsal and anal fins, and some conspicuous glittering greenish-gold regions on the gill covers. There is also a red stripe between the mouth and the eye. These observations may seem ‘obsessive’ – but they are all there to be observed and noted.[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/661/1AF4XP.jpg[/IMG]
Is it known if females of P. phoenicurus or P. opallios (or even P. rubrimontis) females share this same characteristic?
If they do, we are no closer to an answer to the puzzle; if they do not share this characteristic, then perhaps we are, as they would be less likely to be the candidate species, and P. tweediei (aff.) would be more closely indicated, as both males and females, then, would share color patterns similar to P. tweediei. Not that this says they are P. tweediei (aff.) as they could be something completely different from either of these named fishes, but it is something to consider as far as identifying characteristics.
This pair has spawned! But I could not see them as they spawned in some leaves behind java moss. However, a few photos of the displaying pair. And the first fry :cheer: . I have seen about three in there, so it looks as if the female does not eat them.
Thank you for the photos!
This female really shows very much red in the unpaired fins during courtship display – I have never seen this before! Is it really such a pure red – no photographic artefact? I find this extraordinary!
Thank you Stefanie 🙂 , and I don’t think red in female fins is photographic artifact – they just have nice red colors. Attached is another photo showing the same 🙂
Also, If you look here http://parosphromenusphotograph.web.fc2.com/tw0401.jpg you can see this female tweediei also has bright red colors in it’s fins as well – another possible clue to what the P. spec. “TCE 2015” might akin to.
Thank you, Ekona – I didn’t know that tweediei-females show that much red in their fins (I never had P. tweediei – but the day may come 😉 ). Very interesting!
And yes, your female looks very similar to the tweediei-female from the link you posted.Well, this pair spawned again today – in an “apisto hut” 🙂 The spawning site was some cm back from the front glass and with extra tannins in the water, the photos are not very sharp, but not bad for beginner 😉 It was amazing watching the male flaring many times. No massive bubble nest was made and all the eggs were removed by the male throughout the spawning session to a place under a leaf on the ground. There we only a few spawning embraces, mostly the female just deposited eggs that fell to the ground to be picked up by the male to be moved.
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