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Hi Parofriends,
I would like to start a discussion about size and age of young paros. My P. sp. aff. bintan fry grows very fast in relation to the very slow growing P. pahuensis. (Feeding once a day,extensive breeding, same temperature, tank size and nearly the same water parameters). What are your experiences with groth rates of different Parospecies. Is the regulating factor the environment or differs the growth rate between species. Do fry grow faster in a seperate tank, what about temperature, feeding and hardiness, pH, water changes and so on.
Greetings
PatrickMy experience is that some species takes much longer to mature. P. parvulus is one that takes the longest in my experience, whereas a species such as p. nagyi seems to mature quicker.
However I am also not sure if other things may influence the growth, I have no real observations.
My paros share mostly the excact same conditions – except sometimes the amount of fish in one tank.
The sort of very non-scientific observations that one does in a private setting are interesting but very unprecise. For instance, I would say my ‘practise’ now with p.parvulus is that I would avoid taking young fry from the ‘birth tank’ too soon, EVEN they look quite big, – and I would not set them in a tank with few fish. I think my experience has taught me that the fry I leave in the tank, even when there are many grow quicker and more healthy that the fry I take out and seperate in a small flock.
I separate because I think that it is better for fry to have plenty of space etc – but the fry I have done this with have not developed as good as the ones that are still in a kind of ‘flock’.In the same kind of ‘manner’ (very uncertain observation) I would also now avoid if possible to have one paro alone in a tank. It seems to be my experience that having a lonely paro equals more likelyhood of illness. This makes me also wonder about what we really know about the nature of paros in not being a flock fish. I know they are not, but to me it seems the flock has some importance in their wellbeing.
Anyway 🙂 .. just my two cents.
Helene, your observations and presumptions are much alike those Martin Hallmann and I made and are presented in our new book on Paro’s which has just appeared in print.
The main point is: Keeping Paro’s pair by pair in small aquaria is biologically “wrong” but nevertheless the best method to receive a good number of offspring. The “right” method would be to keep small groups of them (one species only, of course) maybe associated with some red Betta spec. and some friendly Boraras spec. in bigger tanks (at least 60 or 100 liters), but you cannot handle them appropriately in that milieu as feeding and rearing of the young are concerned.
But if you did (or do) you will see that they are not monogamous, that one female will visit neighbourung males, and one male will invite several females to its cave. The living in small groups seems to be much more appropriate for their scheme of behaviour than that in fixed pairs, but ….
we are mostly occupied by getting them fed and spawn and breed which is to be mastered in a rational way in pairs in small tanks only.So, you rightly infer that they do better in small groups if the space is sufficient. at least during that long period of adolescence, but, in principle later, too. Their highly endangered status forces us to make breeding a very important aim (we lost all Paros that were imported in the 20th century already after ten years at the latest, mostly after one year already). Keeping such fish in aquaria presupposes that we accept to look for breeding and sustainment in the first rate, but sometimes we experience that this entails structural limits of the aquarium.
Nevertheless, you are right, not as a principle guideline for keeping Paros generally, but as an insight for the best milieu and adequate behaviour. Maybe, from time to time – when you have propagated them before to a safe number – you can follow your insights and experience what is certainly closer to their natural way of living.
Thank you Peter, – but that is really interesting to me.
I always keep paroes in pairs as well, and my observations are really just that, – observations which I wasnt sure had any meaning, but it still has influenced my own practise.I will keep having paroes in pairs for breeding, I am not at all arguing against that – but I think for me its an important knowledge now. Like I have these new p. tweediei, which I have seperated out in 3 tanks, 3 pairs, – but they show no interest in each other, their activity level has decreased quite dramatically from when they were all six together, the females hide all the time, to the point of me getting worried, and one male showing slight signs of odinium.
And I have been thinking in my mind quite strongly if I should put them back together again, because then they seemed to be quite well and fine and lively. These were wild caught fish as far as I know, so maybe being suddenly without any flock is unfortunate for the normal development and their well being ? Who knows ? 🙂 Interesting :).
I am not talking for that one should keep a paro-tank as close to nature as possible by for instance having bettaes etc – but more about that it might have some importance when having fry grow up healthy etc – then this knowledge could be helpful in a way.But I am getting a bit beyond the initial question of PatrickG’s about fry growth 🙂 .. but very interesting indeed.
It’s not the right topic, but nevertherless I prefer to confirm your observation Helene.
On the 31st of August, I have introduced a first couple of P. tweediei in a tank. Untill now, I’ve never seen the female swimming around in the same way the male does. She’s constantly hiding herself behind a small air filter. She even doesn’t appear when it’s feeding time. Female Paros usually do 🙂 Though, the behaviour of the male helps me to understand she still there and well alive. He doesn’t hide and isn’t shy at all …
Two days ago, I obtained a 2nd couple of tweediei. Because of practical reasons, I decided to put them temporary together with a young couple of Linkei. It was an interesting experience to see how the two linkei reacted upon the arrival of two tweediei. Moreover, these new tweediei don’t hide at all. Both male and female just swim around together with the P. linkei.
I didn’t plan to put both couples tweediei together; your description makes me rather think about introducing a 2nd female into the tank where the female is hiding. Perhaps this might help her to leave her hiding place.
That is really interesting Steff, thank you for writing that. Its excatly what I experience, females dont show at all, not even for feeding, – all I see is a happy male 🙂 ..
I have not ever seen this before with new paroes.Maybe I can slightly turn the topic back to growth and development of young paros by confirming Helene’s observation of fry developing better if they are not separated from their parents. I don’t have experience with young paros at all – but my experiences with young Badis convinced me that it’s better to raise young with their parents.
Badis show a similar breeding behaviour as Parosphromenus: the male living in a cave and guarding it, being visited by the female from time to time, watching the clutch, caring for the young in their first days before they leave the cave. Adults normally don’t eat their fry, so they can well develop in the same tank as their parents. I separated the first fry of my Badis species and put them in a tank of their own, all young Badis together. But the parents bred and bred – and I left the new fry in their tank to put the permanent breeding to a stop. It is really amazing – the fry left in the tank with their parents grew very well and are now twice the size of their much older siblings in the separate tank. And their life is more difficult and stressful than that of their siblings – always in concurrence with their large and powerful parents, already being chased by them when growing bigger.
From this I learn that it it is better for the young to stay in the group – at least in Badis, but what you say about paros seems to be very much alike.And now completely back to young paros: Although I have no experience and no opportunity to compare, I think that young quindecim are growing rather fast. My impression is that my young quindecim have nearly duplicated their size since when I first noticed them.
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