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Hello,
I have one breeding pair of P. bintan (?) with another male in a 25l tank. The fishes breed every three weeks since April 2011. But only one offspring! A female, now 3cm large. I often see some larvae only for a few days than they are eaten – I watched the own father hunting the little larvae. Only one other juvenile growed up to 1,5 cm before he died after heavy attacks by the older offspring. Now I want to get more fishes. But what is the best method? Seperating the larvae? I dont think I can catch them with a water hose/ pipe (Schlauch) after they are swimming free, they are really fast and the aquarium is full of leaves, java moss and Salvinia.
But when is the right time to separate the larvae?
Where can I put them?
I have a little glass aquarium (Vollglasaquarium) 5l to put them in. But how to treat the larvae.What do they feed? When do they feed Artemia first? (I have only breeder experience with dwarf cichlids and Poecilocharax (bigger juveniles, eating Artemia) not with so small labyrinth-fishes).
Water changes only with water from the Paro-aquarium or pure osmose-water?
Greetings
PatrickPatrick,
1. extensive breeding (young in presence of the adult) is always a risk. A third fish increases it.
2. At best you remove the adult fish when the larvae have hatched, become dark and begin to swim within the cave (= as late as possible).
3. You can do it the other way around: remove the cave with the larvae inside (as late as possible).
4. A good technique is using a round glass (about two liters). At first take the water from the original tank. Give two small snails.(Your 5 Liter glass may do, too).
5. The young feed best on Rotatoria; one can catch or breed them.
6. Alternatively, you can use Paramecium. Set up the breeding of them early enough!
7. If you have smallest Artemia (San Francisco) you may be lucky the young eating them at once; otherwise after a week or ten days. But use only freshly hatched nauplia.
8. The round glass has the advantage that you can stir up the water once a day, wait for sinking the debris to the middle of the ground, and remove it with a fine tube.
9. The water should be filled up with the same values as in the original tank, but pure osmosis-water is mostly perfect.Yes of course, if it’s the true vinegar eels. They are pretty small compared with the similar “micro” living in oat-substrate.
Peter, what is an ‘untrue’ vineager eel?? I never knew there could be more than one type.
I use these vineager eels, and microworms and small artemia for young fish, – I have never been able to produce those smaller food – or small artemia.
For the extensive breeding I think the fry actually feeds on all kinds of other stuff that comes with an ‘older’ aquarium, – small live food, infusoria which thrive good in particularly java moss.
My parvulus fry – which I now have in two tanks, and actually quite a few, – but they have not been feed at all, – they have survived by them selves, but the tanks they live in is actually quite old and established, and there must obviously be enough to feed on.
For intensive breeding this of course is not enough.O I admit: it’s a ridicoulous expression! I only meant that one should not take the “vinegar eels” for microworms. In the aquarium literature both are sometimes mixed up!
Your other remarks are surely helpful for beginners, so it’s good you spoke about that!Hi Patrick,
I had a bit similar thoughts and questions some time ago.
First time I had a breeding success I decided after my questions here in the forum
to just let it go it´s way. But after some time all the fry were gone, I suppose eaten by the
parents. After some weeks they made a new nest, so I thought if they eat them anyway I can also give it a try.I knew that it takes around 9 days for the larvae to leave the cave. On the 8th day I sucked them out of the cave with a little airpipe into a little plasticbox(24cmx19cmx13cm) from a known swedish company. I put a lot of javamoss inside but think today it was not clever.
The first days I lost quite some larvae. I feeded small artemia twice a day and cleaned the ground before feeding again. I filled in new water from the parents tank after I cleaned and raised slowly the waterlevel over the days. Now they are 3-4 weeks old and I hope (knock on wood) that I won´t loose more. Out of around 30 I have 20 left.
Yesterday I seperated again around 30 larvae with the same method.
It´s still a long way to go but I could learn already a bit.Now I use only drifting plants in the boxes out of tanks or from the balcony where I have a live food bucket. In the roots they can find some infusoria and a place to hide. The dead artemia are lying on the ground and can be sucked out easily with a pipe. Before the dead artemia were hanging in the javamoss and I couldn´t get them all out which I guess had a bad impact on the waterquality.
I would recommend to just give it a try, learn from possible mistakes and try to develop your own method.
greetings
VolkerThanks for your help! Now my Paro male is breeding again. Next week I try to suck the larvae in a small box (4l). My artemia are from San Francisco, the name of the company is Sanders. So perhaps they are small enough. If not, I bought 2 plastic bags with marine rotatoria and I started a culture with protogen and one with moss. I hope in the moss are rotatoria too.
Eight days after the fishes spawned, I put the cave with the larvae in a small aquarium with 4l water from the Paro tank. The black larvae are hanging inside the cave. I put the very light air stream a few centimeters away from them. Water parameters are: Conductivity 30uS, Temperature 23 degrees C, pH 5.
I hope it works!
After the cave was out of the Paro-aquarium, my female attacked the male heavily. Now I covered the aquarium with an blanket.
Perhaps she will be calm again after sleeping…
@ kindai: sorry I do not have a digital camera.
today the larvae are swimming free, but some individuals died during the night. The larvae are very shy and swim very wild through the aquarium when they see me. I feed them with paramecium and rotatoria. In the morning, I made a water change (50%) with water from the Paro-aquarium and added some java moss.
Then I put the cave back to the adults – one minute later the male occupied the cave again and became black. I think they will breed again in a few days…
Congratulations first! Do you try to raise them in the same tank? Yes, it’s possible, but sometimes the old eat the young and sometimes they don’t.
But then there will be the next spawning, you are quite right!Die Tiere Laichen in Höhlen? bei mir zumindest, ich nehme die Laichhöhlen mit den Larven heraus und überführe sie in ein leeres Aquarium. Der richtige Zeitpunkt ist, die Larven hängen erst an der Höhlendecke, wenn sich die ersten Larven von der Höhlendecke lösen und anfangen zu schwimmen. Futter ist schwierig sie sind sehr klein und fressen ivorsorien oder Rädertierchen, erst nach 2-3 Tagen können sie Artemia fressen.
I think I will put the next juveniles in a new small box (3l).
At the moment I can not see if the larvae are eating. In the free water are a lot of rotatoria and paramecium, but the larvae hide in the salvinia roots or on the ground.
Hallo Bernd,
ja das hat zum Glück bei mir auch sehr gut funktioniert. Ich hatte erst die Befürchtung die Larven absaugen zu müssen, aber sie hingen fest an der Decke meiner Tonhöhle. So konnte ich sie mit dem Wasser in der Höhle in ein Vollglasaquarium umsetzen. Am nächsten Tag fingen sie an in der Höhle umher zu huschen, ich nahm die Höhle vorsichtig aus dem Wasser und alle Larven schossen davon.
Greetings/ Viele Grüße
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