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This ornaticauda are from the area Pontianak. Maybe it could be the habitat which describes H. Linke: road from anjungan to Pontianak.
The owner try to get more detailed information from the exporteur about type locality. If we get exact information they could become more interesting for the PP.
Kind regards
ChrisHello Helene,
Aquanom is sending fish by GO. It’s working well. I tried by myself a few times with rar species like Paros and Sp. vaillanti. Packing and starting in afternoon/evening, receiving the next morning. For me that would be the easiest way to splitt them to the people.
Moving the fish another time is necessary in every case of transportation.I hope a lot of members will use the chance to get them.
Chris
Hello Helene,
thank you very much for your explanations. As you mentioned connecting the problems of loosing Parosphromenus with the destroying of the habitats in Borneo with all their rar species can be the only way to protect our Paros.
That it will be a long way working together with zoos and more commercial companies like sealife I agree. I’m excited what will happen to this idea with sealife.Chris
Hello,
I have to agree with martin’s reply/opinion. Paros shouldn’t be imported commercial anymore. I guess that’s the opinion off mostly all members of PP.
We should only import Paros in small numbers private by our own during vacations or with the help of native paro friends there. Then we have to breed how much as we can. But about several problems we have/had with that we discussed a lot of times. Sometimes we need more or new fish to get a feeling for breeding and of course for fighting against inbreeding.When I recognized Parosphromenus the first time about 10-15 year ago I had my first chances to get them in the igl’s forum. I still happy about that Plattform! Nearly the same hardcore people were active like in the PP today. At this time, comparing to today, I had the feeling that Paros were more available in commercial trade. The paro friends were happy if they found some species in trade but also angry and sad about the same problems we talk about today. Most of them died in the tanks because nobody was interested and they lived in wrong water with wrong food.
Therefore it would be the best if it’s not allowed to deal commercial with Paros anymore! It should help to keep the last individuals of rar species in their more and more destroyed habitats.
But that’s only one point of the problems to keep alive this fishes.On the other hand we all know about the damage of the habitats.
To my mind that’s the other point martin is talking about.
What could we do if the habitats and species are lost completely? Maybe we will have some individuals in our tanks and go on breeding them. It’s the same with a lot of rar Bettas. We will never know when will be the last chance to get some individuals of a rar species from the small habitats. Maybe we think we should protect all fish there but one day there will be no more fish anymore to catch again for breeding.
But what will be the aim of PP then? I was not into that topic a lot of years and don’t know what ideas were discussed in the PP.
To my mind we don’t have a real symbol like Orang Utan or Panda. Nobody knows about this fishes and the problems. That’s a real problem!
Bernd told about a meeting with sealife for trying to arrange a exhibition about Parosphromenus. What happened to that? That’s a good way to make this topic more commercial. But for most of the humans Paros will just be a “fish” like thousands of others. They don’t look cute and seem to special like Orang Urans.
I don’t know, but did we try to develop relationships with zoos to start breeding Programms with exhibition tanks?
Maybe it sounds a little bit naive but most breeding Programms started like that. Will be a aim cultivating offspring of lost species in new habitats?A lot of questions, opinions and ideas
just for discussing.I’m sorry but I feel really misunderstood now.
I quit the idea of importing a huge number of ornaticauda because of the arguments and experiences you mentioned.
To my mind another way could be to contact people who are interested in Paros like us and live near their habitats.
Therefore some days ago I contacted the Indonesian Paro group on Facebook. This people are specialized hobbyists like us who discuss about the same problems of environmental destroying, want to save and breed rar Paros (betta too) and are not interested in commercial trade for this fishes.
They know the habitats because they have been there and know about the danger of loosing this species. They are also searching for locations were rar species survived, for example deissneri.
They don’t want to give this fish to unskilled people.I asked if they could help to organize rar species like ornaticauda and deissneri in small! numbers for personal import, because the last census shows off that we don’t have much fish of this species.
For me it had nothing to do with commercial trade of rar species like deissneri!
That we have 2 successful breeding population of deissneri i didn’t know till to this day.So yesterday I got the message including the picture that a member of this group captured some pairs of deissneri to “help us”. They organized really fast. Of course I was surprised about it and didn’t know how to react.
I shared this news with PP because for me it seems to be a good way.
Now I recognize that my effort is noticed as wrong acting of me by the PP. That’s why I feel misunderstood.
It is not my aim to import any paro for commercial trade, of course especially not rar species like deissneri!To my mind it’s not reproducible what difference exist between the situation that a European who loves this fish goes there to get to know the environment of this fish, capture some by himself and transport them home for breeding and saving or if a local with the same knowledge about this species captures them and help to ship them to Europe. The stress during transport should be nearly the same.
In both situations hundreds of fish don’t have to die because of bad circumstances during commercial trade. Of course there is danger that they die during personal import.I will try to import them by myself with the help of the Indonesian paro group.
I hope I will get living fish to breed and give them to interested members of the PP. if there are interested people…I hope that I was able to explain my point of view.
As I told you I got contact to Indonesian paro group. Today in morning I got the message that “Henry” (a member and collector) got 10 pairs of real deissneri he organized for me/us and will keep them well till ornaticauda is collectable.
Then he will organize transport to Germany. The following photo shows the collected fish.Kind regards
ChrisDear Dorothee,
Dear Peter,I can understand doro’s arguments about the Stress by transportation. But I can’t follow at all.
To my mind every paro from commercial trade had stress from shipping to Europe. Therefore it should be the same to fishes which were imported from interested specialists. The negative point about the commercial trade with huge numbers is the fact that most of the fish will die during further transportation in Europe, in tanks of local dealers, because nobody is interessted in this fish and the water parameters are wrong, or because of wrong parameters by their private owners during keeping.
In my opinion the non-commercial way is better to keep alive and breed more fish. Another question is if there will be more commercial trades in the future.
The transportation between specialist in Germany/Europe is another situation. How could we get rar fish and their juveniles to other interested people who want to keep and breed them? We need transportation. Special meetings are the easiest way to exchange species. What about the IGL-Meetings? I got my Paros from Martin and I’m happy about that chance. Should we stop the “Tauschbörse”? I don’t think so! Transportation is necessary to keep Paros alive in our community.
Yesterday I got contact to Indonesian paro group on Facebook. I’m working on organizing a few pairs of wild caught ornaticauda and real deissneri from these people who want to help me/us. They know the habitats, how to catch, keep and transportate those fish. If the weather is right they will try.
For me it is a way to get rar species without killing hundreds of them.Kind regards
ChrisSupplement:
I wrote to aquafish that we are not interested in a big order. Nevertheless he will go on trying to get ornaticauda in smaller quantity.
As he told me aquafish was renamed into aquafish Northeim, was over taken by him and moved into bigger halls in 2009. Therefore the new aquafish has nothing to do with the old situation.
He told me, that he would not offer this possibility if he wouldn’t dare to do this.The dealer in Indonesia wrote to him today: “I am very sorry I am still searching for Ornaticauda, I asked the Supplier for wild fishes they said now the location of this fish is always flood very hard to get the fish. If any good news about this fishes I will inform you soon.”
Let’s see what will happen to this possibility.
Dear Peter,
I understand what you are talking about. I saw a chance to get a new generation of ornaticauda for the PP. If there is a chance to get ornaticauda from the experienced dealers you mentioned, of course it is the better way. There is also big economically danger for aquafish too.
I didn’t know that ornaticauda is so difficult to handle for transport.
But I guess it is nearly the same for other Paros. A lot of fish will die on the way through the world.
That’s an critical aspect of our passion.I will report to aquafish that we decided to find ornaticauda in another way. Especially because of the uncertainty you mentioned.
Maybe ornaticauda will be available at the bigger dealers soon. Hopefully.
Kind regards
ChrisJust an update to the species.
Martin H. wrote to me that it should be P. cf bintan.
I have 12 fishes now with around 4 or 5 males.I will put 2 pairs into my 300l tank with Sp. vaillanti, betta coccina and boraras to observe their behavior in a bigger habitat with different zones.
If there is somebody interested in a pair in berlin, just write me.
Hello Helene,
thank you for your reply. To my mind you are one of the experts 😉
As I can see it’s really hard to find a consent.
I took the pictures with flash and changed the properties to get a near-natural result.
The red you are writing about is more like a brown or dark wine red. The color on the pictures is like in real.
On the pictures of Alfredi I only find strong red in the tail fins. The second inner white-blue line is almost missing on my Paros. The red in the dorsal fin is missing or rather is just existing as a little part in the brown I talked about.
The yellow touch near the head and in some white parts of the tails is also real.
Without flash the brown looks like black and is hard to recognize.
I’m wondering about the red eyes.
To my mind it’s not alfredi, but I’m not a expert 🙂Chris
Today I tried to make some new pictures of the Paros I got from E-pets with 2 supplies.
I don’t know what pictures they used for the homepage but to my mind the Paros I got are completely differefent from the pictures.
Definitely it’s not linkei!I guess it is bintan.
On the first 4 pictures you can see females I’ve got with the first supply.
On the other pictures you can see a younger male and some females from the second supply. They are in another tank. I think there are 3 or 4 males of 8 fishes.I’m a little bit confused about the size of the dorsal fin. It seems to be very short and small. Maybe because of the age.
Some females seem to have longer and bigger fins than this male. The bigger males didn’t display for me.Any opinions?
I took some pictures. To my mind i got 4 females. Do you guys agree? I can’t see any evidence for a male.
I don’t know what to do now. I think I will order 4 more with the comment to get 4 males.
Yesterday I got the parcel from e-pets.
We ordered 4 Paros and 8 Gastromyzon punctulatus / Borneo Sucker for cheap price.
For the paros I added the commento “2 pairs”.The 8 Borneo suckers had been in a very small bag with too little water for 8 fishes. They need water with high oxygen content! The result were 2 dead fish, bad water quality and fungi on the others. Last night 3 more died. The guy is not very pleased about this facts.
Because the paros are tough for short time all 4 are in “good” condition. The nutritional condition was bad as I awaited. I fed Artemia n. and little mosquito larva. Now they look better.
At the moment I guess all 4 are females, but I will wait some more days to see differences.
If it will be 4 females my conclusion about this Dealer is “don’t do it again”
But maybe for some males I have to….I will report.
Chris
