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Thank you Stefanie 🙂 , and I don’t think red in female fins is photographic artifact – they just have nice red colors. Attached is another photo showing the same 🙂
Also, If you look here http://parosphromenusphotograph.web.fc2.com/tw0401.jpg you can see this female tweediei also has bright red colors in it’s fins as well – another possible clue to what the P. spec. “TCE 2015” might akin to.
I hope the idea was well received, and I have photos for sure, but not many species at this time. And that Michael will add his photos is really great – he is a true naturalist and photographer – he now has me interested in begonias 🙂
This pair has spawned! But I could not see them as they spawned in some leaves behind java moss. However, a few photos of the displaying pair. And the first fry :cheer: . I have seen about three in there, so it looks as if the female does not eat them.
Here is something that surprised me today. I have been waiting for another batch of larvae to reach the free-swimming stage so I could pull the canister to rear the fry separately for safety. When I checked this afternoon, the fry were jumping around, but the pair has spawned again in the same canister, so now there are eggs and larvae together. 😆 Normally this pair would spawn after the previous batch of larvae had left the nest. Now they have spawned with the larvae still in there. Maybe lower temperatures (by about 5 degrees F.) has slowed the development of the larvae, but not the time it takes the female to become gravid with eggs after a spawn?
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/903/VjkZVg.jpg[/IMG]I may try to remove the female to a separate tank so the present free-swimming larvae will have a better chance to survive as well as the new batch of eggs as well.
Also, a few photos of one of the young that has survived in the spawning aquarium – feeding nicely on BBS and vinegar eels. I really like the golden trim on the fins. I have seen at least two in there, so ‘Finke’s Rule’ is proving to be correct!
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/WygbJ5.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/901/bnYwNe.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/661/I5MhD0.jpg[/IMG]So glad to hear of the wonderful results of the conference, everyone ~ with all the aspects that have been told, but especially of the mutual and supportive affiliations that have developed and deepened. And I’m especially glad to hear of your safe travels, participation and return, Bill – very great work indeed.
Please keep us informed of how we may send a contribution to help offset some of the necessary expenses incurred by putting on the meeting – this is something those of us who could not contribute so much in other ways, could give back some for the time, work and fishes that have been volunteered and given so generously.
With gratitude,
DavidSome new developments. Because the female was observed eating newly free swimming fry, I decided to try to pull the film canister with a batch of just developed larvae and place in a separate container to rear in safety. Here is the canister with some fry, sitting on my table top.
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/913/Fcxyrm.jpg[/IMG]And here are some of the fry that I was able to observe in the small container, staying under some oak leaves (they are now eating nauplii, infusoria and vinegar eels).
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/912/VQSbZJ.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/XX4iAQ.jpg[/IMG]
Today, I was very happy to see, for the first time, a young P. nagyi in the same aquarium as the parents – so, from the 4 spawns that have taken place in the tank, at least one fry has survived! (Although, part of its caudal fin is missing.. :unsure: ) It was feeding on newly hatched nauplii, but in these photos the white dots are not nauplii, but infusoria that occur naturally in among the leaves and moss, or are from the infusoria culture I add regularly to the tank.
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/RprHLO.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/UsWhqZ.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/xVHDOg.jpg[/IMG]
And here is a video showing the same fish feeding on nauplii.
https://youtu.be/0JRYkNH5_sM[quote=”Peter Finke” post=5015]…Similarly P. tweediei females could show rather clear reddish-brown markings in that situations.[/quote]
This is an interesting fact – perhaps this characteristic, observed in the pictured female that is often displaying to the male, is one clue as to the identity of this fish. In the absence of a known collecting location, can this characteristic provide information that links these fish more closely to P. tweediei? Clearly, the female unpaired and pelvic fins show areas of chocolate-brown to black coloration. There appears to be dark brown marginal bands in the dorsal and anal fins. (Also red coloration to varying degrees appears throughout the unpaired fins. In the caudal fin, the red colors seem to be concentrated toward the base of the caudal fin and not toward the distal margins, which remain colorless). Also note the presence of metallic coloration along the edges of the membranes between the tips for the spinous rays of the dorsal and anal fins, and some conspicuous glittering greenish-gold regions on the gill covers. There is also a red stripe between the mouth and the eye. These observations may seem ‘obsessive’ – but they are all there to be observed and noted.[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/661/1AF4XP.jpg[/IMG]
Is it known if females of P. phoenicurus or P. opallios (or even P. rubrimontis) females share this same characteristic?
If they do, we are no closer to an answer to the puzzle; if they do not share this characteristic, then perhaps we are, as they would be less likely to be the candidate species, and P. tweediei (aff.) would be more closely indicated, as both males and females, then, would share color patterns similar to P. tweediei. Not that this says they are P. tweediei (aff.) as they could be something completely different from either of these named fishes, but it is something to consider as far as identifying characteristics.
Thank you, Stefanie. Very nice photos and fish! Thanks for posting here – this male appears to be fairly similarly colored to the male I have and the photos give me a better idea of how they are colored. But as you say the structural based colors are constantly changing due to light angles and the like. In any case, very nice fish.
Stefanie, thanks for the link – the Pekan Nenasi is a very distinctive form of nagyi. Would you say the metallic bands are mostly golden in color? It looks that way from the photos, but sometimes, as we know, it’s hard to tell because of the camera, lighting and the like. And, I now recall reading your thread about them, but that was early on, before I really knew what I was looking at. I recall focusing only on the male, because of it’s bright colors and not really noticing the characteristics of the female coloration. However, because of my observations of my fish, I learned something and now can go back and revisit your thread and learn again. This is only possible because of your documentation, and this is why this forum, and all the information it’s members post, is such a valuable resource!
Regards,
DavidMy words didn’t quite express my thought, Stefanie, I must apologize – I meant to say, as far as my knowledge (or my experience or reading, etc.) I have not been aware that females get those black pelvic fins, that is, this is the first time I’ve been aware of it
(not that it never happens) 🙂 . But I have not kept that many paros, so my knowledge is very limited. Interesting that your Nagyi female does get the dark fins, and thanks for posting that photo. That is a very beautiful combination of colors in that female! What population is that?I think my nagyi female has clear lower fins most all the time (there are definite, but rather faint red colors in her dorsal fin – but not nearly as extensive as in your female).
Here she is right at the peak of pre-spawn displaying – the fins appear to be almost colorless.
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/j4vHSe.jpg[/IMG]– so there is some kind of variation, it seems between these individuals or is it populations? But this is why I wanted to show the female colors, as this is as important as the male colors.
Here is a brief video showing the male and one of the females feeding and displaying. I think this could be a future spawning pair, as these two always seem to be together, whereas the other females are kept hiding away by the male to a greater extent. The first portion of the video is taken with diffuse overhead lighting only, and I notice the male looks to be only black and white – with the glowing fin edges and metallic opercules showing strongly in contrast to the rest of the dark body.
Also notice the black tones in the females unpaired fins, especially the pelvic fins (see photos below) – this was a new color pattern in a female paro, to my knowledge. So a video can help to show different characteristics that a photo might not always capture.
The last segment of the video shows the displaying pair with side lighting, showing more of the colorful fins – truly a beautiful animal!
https://youtu.be/PeoLlCTcT8YA photo captured from the video showing female color pattern
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/X069Ox.jpg[/IMG]Close-up of female showing brownish and red tones in unpaired fins – these intensify during display.
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/912/Om0Shb.jpg[/IMG]Two females – one with more red color in it’s unpaired fins
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/W5ZcLF.jpg[/IMG]Pair feeding – still photo taken as the same time as the video
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/zRHOzp.jpg[/IMG]The displaying pair
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/537/LWsJ2T.jpg[/IMG]With the further process of finding an appropriate way to refer to this fish, it has been decided to give it the provisional name of P. spec. “TCE 2015”. The “TCE” portion of the name refers to and is an acronym for “The Cichlid Exchange” (the importer) followed by “2015” (the year of import ). We use the acronym of the sake of ease. Because this thread was started with what is now seen to be an inadequate title/name for the fish (P. sp. aff. phoenicurus/aff. tweediei), it will be closed out, and all further posts, comments and photos will be posted to a new thread P. spec. “TCE 2015”. Please post any further comments to that new thread, keeping in mind that although no further posts will be enabled here, this current thread will still be available for viewing reference.
[quote=”Peter Finke” post=4998]
So, I suggest that this fish should not been provisionally named “spec. rubrimontis/tweedie/opallios” but “spec. name of the trader and 2015”. [/quote]Thank you, Peter, for the suggestion on how to refer to these fish and for the history of the use of that naming convention with the species from Mimbon Aquaristics imported in 1998.
Following your suggestion, these fish should be referred to as Parosphromenus sp. “The Cichlid Exchange” 2015.
Although there is a business association with the retail outlet, Wetspot, The Cichlid Exchange was the importer, housing facility and seller of these fish to me, and therefore, according to the suggested formula, should be part of the provisional name.Also I received some more paros from the same source, but of a pair of this new variant, the male did not survive the overnight shipping and that was the last of them. So I have one male and at least four females.
Here is part of the new group
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/538/bHdfAE.jpg[/IMG]And a lovely pair
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/673/6dWwrn.jpg[/IMG]There has been another spawning of these Nagyi – this time on August 18th. I have been able to get good photos of the developing eggs and larvae over the past 6 days 🙂
Day of spawning – looks like ~30 eggs, so more than previous spawnings.
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/910/RlF26W.jpg[/IMG]Here the larvae at this morning – 132 hours just 5 and a half days later.
[IMG]http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/540/wLy93S.jpg[/IMG]This evening they were really becoming free swimming and some were leaving the spawning nest of the film canister – good, but – the female was observed patrolling around below the canister and picking off the fry as they swam out – not good. So, although I have a nice series of photos of the developing larvae every 12 hours to show for it, I’m not sure how many fry actually have survived/escaped the female. So next time I will have to remove the female or the fry while still in the canister, as described by some folks on the forum.
