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Hi Zahar,
as I told it before to Ackim, the Paros are the old P. sp. “Ayerr Hitam” Dietrich Schaller brought to Walter Foersch in the early 1970.
The location is nearby (only 15km) the place Schaller found them and the colouring and pattern matches the old pictures.They are no tweedies. In my oppinion Kottelat and Ng only speculate that the form from Ayer Hitam could be tweediei too. As I know (and you Zahar too), P. tweediei only are found around Pontian, wich is more than 70km in the south.
There will be a report in the next IGL “Der Makropode” of the rediscovery of the old P. sp. “Ayer Hitam”, which was labeled wrongly for long times as P. “deissneri”Very good good news that paros are found again in this area.
Best wishes and well done pictures, Martin
Bennie is right, in my oppinion. We have to thank Chris for his engagement (little denglish). It`s not unethical to keep paros, even not ornaticauda from trade. If we can get them.
Best wishes, Martin
This one is a shure P. tweediei “Pekan Nenas” too. It nearly looks like an nice alfredi-type. The red pigments are nearly gone and expose the base of iridescent tourquise coloured bands.
For explanation of my thesis:
A P. tweediei which has no source of carotene could lose the red colouring nearly complete, but no, P. tweediei is not identical with P. harveyi. There must be a genetic disposition too and we have shure other differences. But all the species and forms of harveyi-group are genetically near and perhaps the lack or existence of trace-elements in water or nutrition plays a important role in their appearance.
The best carotene-fed up P. alfredi doesn`t look the same as tweediei. The same should be in rubrimontis, alfredi, opallios and the cf….types.
But carotene supply explains differences in locations (different food/trace-elements), generations (different food/trace-elements) and the splitting in apparently different stocks (different food/trace-elements) and has nothing to do with genetic constant qualities.This all doesn´t mean that the paros are not healthy, the lack of red pigments ist reversible by feeding the right food.
Martin
Now Parosphromenus tweediei “Pontian, Sri Bunian, Pekan Nenas, Parit Bharu”:
It is helpful to read the thread once before, because of the explanation of the variance and the existence of the red bands.
Healthy P. tweediei look like this. The forms of Pekan Nenas, Sri Bunian or Parit Bharu looked identically. They show (nearly) only red markings in unpaired fins.
After beeing in capture with a carotineless nutrition, over some month sometimes colouring change like this.
Martin
Before I will show some more pictures of species references with shure origins, I will try to clear something:
The first picture-group of 5 paros, none picture shows a paro we could assign to one of the described species. They are undescribed forms from other origins, probably peninsular Malaya.
The second 4 pictures show P. alfredi. I am shure the Sedili-Paro is an alfredi. The cf. alfredi “Mimbon 98” is i. m. o. P. alfredi too, but a little different in colouring and the larger lenght of fins and especially ventral-filaments. The other differences you mention Peter are variances or illusions (perspective). Nothing to do with food. The long filaments of alfredi “Mimbom98” in this stock have been very constant, like it is not so in alfredi Sedili-stock.
Now we know that the red pigments, which are put on a base of a reflecting tourquise zone, are very instable and depend on carotinoids food must contain (ore contains not). The red markings get their brightness from this iridescent base. All bright red coloured paros are concerned. If the red pigments are gone, a tourquoise colour appears.
The brownish-red colours of P. quindecim or linkei for example surprisingly are not.
Every species (tweediei, alfredi, rubrimontis, opallios and shurely the undescribed others too) should be very red in nature (all I cought). They loose the reed pigments by get fed with carotionless nutrition over long time. Since I feed them with beta-carotin-bostered grindal, I had this effect nevermore.
Martin
Now the reference-species: Three times Parosphromenus alfredi “Sedili” self caught 2009.
First pic shows a male after capture in Sedili (pic N. Neugebauer), they are very red because of shrimp
Second a male of F2 or F3-generation (shows the lack of red markings in caudal, dorsal and anal fin)
Third shows a young male of F5-generation (alter getting grindal, fed with beta-carotinoids)Fourth is the famous P. cf. alfredi “Mimbon1998” with only a little red colours because we didn`t know to feed carotinoids They had very nice long whitish ventral filaments. In my opinion also a. P. alfredi from another origin.
We can see a lot of difference (also) in cause of food.
Martin
Sorry but for me it`s not possible to add a pic. They are always to large. Sorry.
Best wishes, Martin
Now very small pictures. First P. cf. alfredi “trade/Kota Tinggi” traded in year 2002 is a “alfredi with no whitish ventralfilaments
Second also, only little different from import 2015
Third a different one without any bluish-greenish markings, traded 2006. I think Ekona showed this type some month before.
Fourth P. cf. trade Tanjong Malim , traded around 2001, is near to rubrimontis (Horst Linke also got from me and described it in his books as P. sp. Tanjong Malim.
Fifth is a very red one, perhaps near but not identic to rubrimontis. Traded 2015We don`t know the real origin, the locality is an information from the exporter. And not from local fisher (and they know more than one locality and sometimes they mix them shurely). They most likely come from peninsular Malaya
Thank yo Helene. Best wishes.
In adition to my words about the cf. “tweediei” some more notes. Most of forms we got from trade the last two decades, are not identical with the described species. Without a link to the location or a (really) true origin we cannot decide which species is near to our trade-paros. So the naming cf…… is not more than a well-meant orientation.
Now some examples of trade-paros I documented for comparism.Martin
No tweediei but very nice. I know the pictures of the males one generation before from Helene too. We had very near forms in IGL about 10 years before and one of them we called P. cf. alfredi Kota Tinggi. It could be a alfredi-near-form with black ventral filaments, but we didn`t know the real origin.
Cause they are no tweediei, please call them P. cf. tweediei (only because someomne has started like that) “trade…..20..” Helene should help, she should know from wich dealer they came.
The worst would be, that they get mixed with P. tweediei (from Pontian, Pekan Nenas).Best wishes, Martin
