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Yes, you are completely right, – but I think that is also what we at least aim to do – to write the origin of the fish and if this is an import, then this will be mentioned, and if you get the fish from private, then this is mentioned too.
I looked into Horst Linkes new book just now, – I have to say, I still think the one I showed at the photo in the beginning of this thread looks so much similar to the one on page 455 if you are so lucky to have to the book, – if not, this is a photo of a rubrimontis. Horst Linke writes that theres one characteristic with rubrimontis, and thats a ‘large dark spot at the base of the caudal fin’ …. I actually think I am seeing that in the photo of mine.. perhaps.. ?
BUT … I am also thinking now that since I got these 6 fish (I lost one ) – the experience with them has been ‘strange’. First I separated what I thought was 2 pairs – with absolutely no effect. The fishes showed no interest in each other at all. For some months I left it like that. Then I gave up and put them all together in a larger tank, thinking they had to grow. There was always one male with very clear dominant colours, but totally inactive – always just under a root.
Then after a year – where basicly I just fed them – another male started to show colours more, and looked more interested in one of the females, – so I cought these out. And they produced the offspring in a day.
I then took the other male and female and separated into a tank – to this day they don’t show any interest in each other, same story. The two males are sort of looking the same, – however one of them was always larger and more clear in colour.And then I am just thinking, – perhaps, as we know, – it could happen that fish caught from two or more small localities are just put into one bag and exportet as such, – and perhaps when I bought mine, there were more ‘species’ or variants, and perhaps this can explain the stage behaviour ? The non interest in spawning behaviour.
And I also think, that looking at Horst Linkes descriptions, – there are so many variants within this group of parosphromenus – tweediei/rubrimontis – that it may end up being impossible to say more than it does certainly belong in this group, but which excatly might be impossible to say ever.I still think, Steff, that yours look different from mine, the red band seems much more substantian all the way around, and the black band at the end of the caudal broader – and even if I could get my fish to flash, I doubt they would ever show that the same way. I still haven’t really seen them flash seriously though.
But you are also right in that it could also be interesting to hear how it went with the other fish that was sold from this import.
Steff, I definitely see yours looking as tweediei, but mine .. this black band is too narrow. I have never seen them looking as clear as the one in your photo
I also spoke to Zahar Zaharia, who lives there, and he thinks it is highly unlikely actually that it should be rubrimontis because the area where its found is so destroyed, and there are very rarely anyone catching for commercial. But of course it can’t be ruled out. He doesn’t think they are tweediei though either.
I am confused :blink:
But I am determined to find out somehow. B) I have got 20 little offspring who deserves to know who their father is!Those are the same fish as I was talking about in that thread, yes. But looking at your photo I think yours looks much more like p.tweediei than mine.
And I think we were really just ‘assuming’ that it was the same import, – we don’t really know for a fact, do we ?
I mean mine were bought in a shop in Copenhagen, and although they came from the same importer at the same time 🙂 .. well, it could be two different species.
Its true Peter also had some at that time, I forgot that, – but again, – we just assumed it was the same import. We didn’t know for a fact.
But I cannot get the photos of my fish to correspond with tweediei, – yours, yes, but mine not. The black band in the caudal is too narrow. And when Bernd says they look like the rubrimontis he brought home himself, – then I am much more inclined to say that mine at least are rubrimontis 🙂Thank you all for comments.
Bernd, good to hear your observations, – I think I feel quite confident that I have p.rubrimontis now. But I will keep Peters remark in the back of my head also regarding tweediei.
I will take more photos when I can.This fish is the male that I bought – and I bought it in august 2013, so a little more than a year ago.
This particular fish is the ‘father’ of now many offspring, – but the offspring is yet too small for any identification.
The more I look at this male the more I do think rubrimontis. But I will continue to try to make better photos. Its difficult to get good photos of this fish, because they dont show off a lot.
I am not saying that small tanks are always better. It was just these p.tweediei, – and it was just so strange that they had gone for so long (more than a year) with no interest in spawning, – and then all of a sudden because of a change in environment, – it happened.
I sometimes thing that it is also excatly this : the sudden change of environment might trigger another behaviour.Congratulations, – that is really good news. Fantastic to be the one to first report offspring of this fine species. I hope there are more than the one, – but as we know there often is. 😉
I have a p.tweediei pair which spawned and where I took the parents out immidiately. It has taken weeks now of feeding an ’empty’ tank before I can really see the small ones. Just tells you how long they can hide in a tank if you dont think they are there 🙂
This method of breeding though has created a tiny problem for me, – I count around 15-20 offspring :S
Actually these p.tweediei were strange, I have had them for over a year now, – and they showed no interest in spawning untill I separated them into smaller tanks with a pair in each. Before that they were 2.3 in a bigger tank, but nothing. And in the beginning they were seperated in pairs too, but nothing happened. The day after separating them the last time one of the pairs had eggs in the cave. The other pair is still doing ‘nothing’.same here. All good, but no spawning yet.
But perhaps not so long time before something happens 🙂
Here are a few photos from today🙂 yes, that would be nice, – but we have talked about this before – and its really difficult to make a trustworthy list like that, – because it has to be completely reliable.
Its not much fun if you look at the list and see someone having reported a lot of offspring but forgot to report that its half a year ago.
Which is the kind of things that happens with this kind of online things.
But the more ideas the closer we could get to creating something which works eventually.I am very aware of the fact that our private messaging is not at all optimal, – I should see if I could make it better, – I am sure there are ways in which it could be much more flexible, its just not very easy :blink:
Have been thinking about this a little, and a few thoughts :
The Census is really important in the Parosphromenus Project, and the aim is to follow the status of each species. This is the way to get the overall picture of how any species is doing in private stocks. Secondary it gives the opportunity to see where off spring is, but this is only secondary.
To have a seperate Census would in my opinion not be good, – it would risk becoming confusing and unstructured.
It would be much better if many more from UK took part in it, – and perhaps we could ask Benjamin Wilden if it was possible to indicate which countries are involved, just by adding initials of country. Then it was possible to see who was based in UK.
But I think that we should be careful to keep the original purpose for the Census seperate from any lists of breeders or off spring.But another thing is, – that initially when we started this homepage we had the intention of making a ‘members map’, for excatly the purpose which John is mentioning, – that it would be possible for members to see where other members live nearby.
To make this map became very difficult because some people write their adress, some dont, – some say yes its allright it can be seen public, some dont want that. And with so many countries it became really confusing. So I asked that we stopped it this way.But this doesnt mean that I dont have maps of members, – I have just split them up in smaller areas, and they are not publicly available. But it is quite possible to make it so that a specifik group of user can access a particular map.
At present, I do have a UK map 🙂 … and I can make it so that it can be visible to a specifik group of users (UK members ? ) It is also quite possible to use this map as an information ‘tool’ – anything could be written in these maps, – it can be anonymous and say 1 person is living here, – or it can say name, adress, – you could even use it to enter who has what species – .
The problem with it now, is that for example in our adress list I have 22 mail adresses, – but only about 6 or 7 with adresses that could be put into a map.
If such a map should work, there would have to be some guidelines around it, – and it is of course also a work to be done. But I would be happy to help if you wanted to make it.To Russ.
This situation is what happens all the time, both in UK – Denmark, and also Germany. It is not as if the situation of bying though shops are any better here.
There are exceptions such as this recent import of p.phoenicurus, – it happens very rarely.When I find parosphromenus in my local shops in Copenhagen I can never get a location, or if there is a location its most likely inacurate. Or the fish are not what they are said to be. Lately they have had p.gunawani (not!) and p.deissneri (not!) They sometimes even have p.deissneri, with the location Bangka (not!) … it is really difficult. I go every time to check, but I dont bye anymore unless its really really clear to me what species it is.
The import of p.phoenicurus in september in Germany was very exceptional. I would say though that identifying p.phoenicurus without locality is possible, – it is a very remarable fish with some clear markings which seperates it from other species. (see our species index)
And if it was in UK at the same time as the import in Germany, there could be good chances that it is p.phoenicurus.
However, I must say, I have also experienced that shops have a tendensy to suddenly have the same species, as if when one import is creating a lot of attention, such as the phoenicurus, – then the next time my shop gets fish its likely to be named as the last ‘popular’ import. And often isnt. For example suddenly there were p.gunawani all over, – now its p.phoenicurus (actually right now they have phoenicurus and deissneri, I should probably go and have a look 🙂 )Living in Denmark to me probably resembles a little bit living in UK, – I have to go to Hamburg, – probably the plane to London would be faster, – but it is a lot better for me to get fish through personal contacts there than keeping on trying my luck in my local shops.
So I agree with you, and with John, we should see if there is a way to create not only something which could perhaps help here and now one time (at the international meeting) but perhaps also a more lasting structure within the project.
We have connections to for example Poland and Lituania as mentioned in the last Newsletter, where more people have joined the Project, and are forming a group helping each other, – I think it could be very relevant in UK too.If there is a wish for a list I can make that. I would though like to say that we have here also a link section. In this there is a category named shops. Theres not a lot of links there yet, – but if I had more I could add these shops to the links. The shops that already is mentioned on the list are shops which have been reported as having paros.
I can make a category specificly with links of importers.I would say to this though, – that even though I have two shops here in Copenhagen which regularly have good paros, I have stopped using these. Except for a few times, such as the last import of p.phoenicurus in Germany, most of these imports of wild caught paros are uncertain identities, or as you mention they are p.linkei and p.nagyi (without location)
I personally rely mainly on fish I aquire through personal contacts, and then keep on breeding these.
I have before been talking to someone from UK about this, – and I think it would be really good to make some structure in the project which could help bring more paros with certain identification and location to UK.
Living in Denmark I personally have a big problem with off spring. I think there may be other individuals in the project around in areas outside of Germany, and individuals who are perhaps not in the category of ‘breeders’ – but where the problem still is quite big. And where it would also be really nice if there was help.
Somehow it is really a problem that one is trying to help with breeding a rare species, – and helping by being ‘godfather’, – but then end up with more and more tanks with too many offsprings.
I do know that if its on a larger scale import we are talking about its not helpful, but we shouldnt forget this aspect of private people who have too much success with breeding, and who are living outside of Germany sometimes.How would it be if someone travelled in person to UK ? I have heard that it is possible to take fish on the plane, packed well in a suitcase. Its only about an hours travel. Just asking 🙂 ?? Dont know if it is possible.
If you look under the species index of phoenicurus you can also see photos of the female.
In my bigger tanks I use both the small corner filter in some and in others I use any other ‘old’ pump as long as they are not too powerful. (eheim powerball, smaller fluval pumps) I ‘wrap’ them in the hmf filter material (as in Dorothees photo) – and I use the tyoe with the bigger holes.
Even though you dont need strong current in paro tanks, and small bubble filters are good in smaller tanks, – but if you get around 50 or 60 liter, I think it does make the waterconditions more stable with a bigger pump and more filtermaterial. I seldom change them or rinse them, thats the advantage of having a big hmf piece in the tank.
But it is nessesary to ‘slow’ the flow down, – this I do by wrapping the hmf foam around the pump, covering the output thing, so that it only gives a tiny bit of circulation. (it doesnt look pretty, and is often quite clumsy, but after a while some leaves or moss or a piece of wood will hide it)Yes, Bernd, – but this one couple will hopefully produce more now. And feeding so well as you do I think they will grow up quick 🙂
With parvulus I am also surprised how quick you can determine what sex the fish has. The young males show male sign very early.
I have 4 couples of parvulus producing fry, but havent breed extensive. I have only tried this one time with the p.tweediei couple just recently and I am curious to see how many fry this will give then. At the moment I can see many more than I usually get, so maybe this is the way to go with parvulus also 🙂
Pavel, – I never thought about having cyclops in the garden pond, I have to try that too. Though my garden pond is so small it usually freeze totally over, but still.
