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Hello everybody,
this is a very interesting topic indeed. I have more or less the same water conditions in every tank: small bag of peat granules; beech leaves and a piece of Catappaleave; around 23°C;
With P. harveyi I get very balanced sex ratios up to now. With some Betta on the contrary, I always have a lot more males.I tend to agree with Richard Brode (IGL), who states that this could be a general problem of extensive breeding: males grow faster, are more aggressive and therefor get more food. So they starve out the females in a very early stage (which one doesn’t realize) and you end up with all males.
It would be interesting to hear if someone who breeds intensively, really gets well balanced sex ratios.
Greets
MartinThanks Helene,
it’s a bintan form from trade that was sold as deissneri. Perhaps it’s similar to the Blue-Line fish that were sold a few years ago. This name would make sense for it’s got a really broad blue banding in the unpaired fins. Really nice! Unfortunately we don’t know where they come from.
I bought 8, but got only this single male and 7 females. …They are spawning at the moment 🙂 .Good night,
MartinHi Stefanie,
in my opinion, all your pictures show females. As far as my experience goes, females of some species can show this dark coloration (esp. the dominant ones) in the abscence of males.
Here’s a female of my bintan variant that your fish reminds me of:
If you had a male in your group, I think he would have to look like this, with all the females around:
…or like this:
You know whar I mean? …I think males can easily be identified by their strong contrast that females never show. …At least, if they are well acclimatized and in good condition.
Greetings,
MartinHi Jordy,
when my setup is all new (new sand, fresh wood and leaves; no water or filter-sponge from running tanks), I usually try to wait 1 week, until I put the paros into the aquarium.
But I think, this can’t be generalized. In case of doubt try to wait 2 weeks. Over time you will get an eye for the moment the milieu is right.
A small bag of peat-granules helps to keep the pH low.
My first paro-aquarium was running almost one year, before I got the first fish. 🙂
Greetings,
MartinHello everybody,
first of all: really nice tank, Sverting. Both, the dimensions and the setup with the peat moss and the thin roots, look very impressive.
But I agree with Peter when it comes to breeding. I made the experience, that paros need some quietness during mating and especially while caring for the eggs and fry. If the males are stressed too much, it sometimes leads to disappearing clutches etc..
What I observed with 2 pairs of P. phoenicurus in a 45l-tank was, that the 2 females spawned alternately with one dominant male (this male occupied the whole tank, although I had structured it into 2 territories. The other one was pale and standing in the corner). During every spawn the eggs/fry of the previous spawn were completely eaten (perhaps by the female?). So I watched several spawns but no fry developing. After separating one pair I finally got the first fry.
I think the problem is, that conditions in our tanks (even the “bigger” ones e.g. 30-50l) are much more confined than in nature.
So, from my experience, I would say that the size of the tank doesn’t matter too much, but that there’s only one pair for themselves seems to be essential for the development of fry.
Of course, this doesn’t mean, that you couldn’t be successful at any rate and shouldn’t try it.
If you should experience the same as I did, you can still catch out a nice couple and give them a quiet 20l-tank with a small cave, peat, beech/oak-leaves and Ceratopteris for their own.To the plants:
I was experimenting with different (almost all) species of crypts that are available in the aquarium trade. Most of them come from limestone areas in Sri Lanka and are therefor hardwater-species. I knew that, but still wanted to do the experiment and planted them in my show-tanks with iron-fertilizer-substrate covered with sand (some also in pots with pure sand). The result was that all of them melted within hours (pH: 5.0-5.5). So, I draw the conclusion, that they are simply not suitable.Selection:
Do you really think you can simulate natural selection in a small 70l-tank with some Boraras? I believe, that aquarium-strains are always a little “different” from the wild type (at least after some generations). With paros, I’ve never experienced something like laziness.If I were you, I’d pick out the best-looking couple and give them a seperate tank as Peter suggests and put the others in your beautiful community-tank. This way, you could have both: watch the mating and spawning behaviour of your couple and some territorial behaviour of the group in a nice community-setup. Apart from that you would enjoy “breeding-success”, because of course paros are way too precious to be only “kept” and on the long run wasted in a community tank.
Greetings
MartinHello everyone,
only for the sake of completeness I wanted to add some pictures of my harveyi to point out the differences between them and Omaha’s fish.
To me, the iridescent band in the unpaired fins of Omaha’s fish looks much cleaner and more consistent. In the harveyi it looks a bit “mottled” (esp. in the caudal fin).
The colour of the harveyi’s iridescent band is blue, but only in the anal fin while it turns to some sort of white in the caudal and the dorsal fin. This appears even slightly golden (due to the yellowish water?).
In my opinion, the harveyi also look more stout in general.
I think it’s a good idea to name your fish like you did (at least provisionally) and keep them seperate. Perhaps it is able to find out where they came from. …As far as I remember, there were P. bintan traded at that time in Germany. They were confirmed to be “real” bintan and available in several shops e.g. Tropicwater.
Furthermore good luck!
Hi Omaha,
due to the relatively long filaments of the pelvic fins and the cleanly shaped iridescent bands in the unpaired fins, I would definitely not tend to harveyi, but perhaps to P. bintan or even more to some undescribed form from Sumatra, e.g. “Sentang”.
My harveyis have much shorter filaments and overall shorter fins. Besides, the iridescent band in the unpaired fins is not that precisely drawn, but looks a bit “shattered”. You can compare the photos in the “species” section.
Apart from that, beautiful fish! Good luck with the fry.
Martin
Hi Hugues,
I’m not experienced at crossbreeding Paros, but I assume that hybridization of closely related species (e.g. the Harveyi-Group) is of course possible, and perhaps also happening in nature, where different species get in contact at some sort of borderline. I get to this point, because especially the members of this group don’t only show similarities in colour-patterns, but also in courtship behaviour and mood-related colouration… So why shouldn’t it be possible. As far as I remember, someone from the IGL-Forum has already bred hybrids accidently a few years ago. But it could also have been somewhere else…
These crossbreeding experiments that you talk of, could be interesting to confirm the status of some species, but the problem is: of course, classically, hybrids between two species should show decreased fertility or even be sterile, but I’m not so sure if this also applies to fish, especially closely related Paro species that vary only slightly in small colouration details. I think they could produce fertile offspring, why not?
Problems with fertility could also occur some generations later, so it would take very long to get results and it would furthermore not be clear if the infertility is a result of the cross- or the in-breeding afterwards.So, since I don’t even have enough tanks for all the different species and forms I’d like to breed, I’ve not started such experiments yet 😆 .
Martin
Hi Patrick,
of course, if your plants died otherwise, the use of fertilizer sounds sensible to me.
… as long as your Paros’ eggs and larvae develop well.I must also admit, the water from which I start isn’t as soft as yours, because our tap water is very hard (cond. around 1300 microS/cm). With peat I get my RO water to 45 microS/cm. Perhaps that’s some kind of limit for the growth of javafern etc.
Grettings,
MartinI totally agree with Peter.
In my experience, Salvinia, Ceratopteris, Java-fern and -moss grow very well without adding micronutrients. A lack of these substances wouldn’t only cause reduced growth, but in most cases also pale, yellowish or necrotic leaves and so become evident. Perhaps the micronutrients get into the system through (live-)food and the use of peat, leaves etc. in sufficient amounts.
In our case, I don’t think that the limiting factor for plant growth is the amount of micronutrients, but the absence of Ca2+, Mg2+, HCO3– and the low pH-levels, that many plants are not able to cope with.
Apart from that, a far more general question is:
What is the best strategy to keep the water conditions as stable as possible? Is it to rely on regular water changes (e.g. every two to four weeks), or to rely on the (floating) plants as nutrient absorbers and avoid a water change as long as possible, as Patrick suggests.
For my part, I tend to changing 50% of the water regularly, because I think, that the water quality in an aquarium cannot be measured only by NO3– and other macronutrient-levels, but also includes other metabolic products (from plants and fishes) that accumulate in the water (e.g. phytochemicals, hormones etc.).
Furthermore, I think that the shock of a water change is far less significant, when a change is done in rather short intervals, than with more seldom changes. But that’s of course my personal opinion.Greetings,
MartinHi Sylvia,
I don’t think, that there is any sort of snail, that is able to cope with that soft and acidic water. All the snails (the most common ones like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planorbarius_corneus etc.), that came into my tanks along with the plants, became more transparent and smaller from one generation to another. Finally, there weren’t any left. Of course, they need lime for their shells which is completely absent, and not stable, in our tanks.
Last week I’ve visited a friend, who is using Asellus aquaticus in the tanks for raising the fry. They don’t seem to be a threat to the eggs and the fry, but they eat dead artemia and unfertilised eggs that would otherwise moulder.
Of course, adult Paros eat up the Asellus.I think, this could be worth a try.
Greetings,
MartinHello,
of course, Peter is right. I completely overlooked the small filament of the caudal fin, that can clearly be seen in front of a lighter background.
… so good luck for the photos!
Hello,
is there some pale red colour in the fins? If so, the fish reminds me of a not fully coloured P. spec. from Langgam. The slightly lanceolate caudal fin would also fit.
But of course, one can never be sure…
If you take a photo and use a flashlight, the red colouration of the fins should come out a little more.P. spec. Langgam:
Of course Peter is right, that you should only use this male for breeding, if it is possible to get females of the same species (…from the same dealer).
Greetings
MartinHello,
the only plants I keep in my tanks are Java-fern, Anubias barteri var. nana, Java-moss and as floating plants Ceratopteris or Salvinia. They all seem to be able to cope with the water conditions. I use ro-water, that is dripping over peat, before I use it. The pH-value is around 5.
Besides there is a Cryptocoryne (I think it is C. pontederifolia), that i brought home from an IGL-convention, that is doing fine in a clay-pot filled with pure sand. It is growing very slow, but the leaves are healthy and green.
I don’t know exactly, what makes it work, perhaps it’s the moderate peatiness, compared to tanks with peat-substrate. Nevertheless it seems to be close to the limit.
Greetings
MartinHello Jacob,
1. I also use R/O water. Our tap water is very hard (>45°GH), so the permeate still has a cunductance of about 70,0 microsiemens/cm. What works best for me is to use something like this:
The R/O water drips over peat (unfertilized, pure) filled in a bottle, right when it exits the R/O unit. After this I get yellowih water with pH around 4.5 and a cunductance around 50 microsiemens/cm. The initial murkiness vanishes in the tank, a few hours after the water change.
I made the experience, that anything that has to do with adding something to R/O water, like peat-extract etc. makes you end up with too high conductances…
so I prefer the dripping method, which extracts the humic acids from the peat and on the other hand even lowers the conductance.Perhaps there are other ways of getting a suitable water, especially if you have softer tap water, but in my case, this method seems best.
2. I’ve never watched a pH-crash in my tanks up to now… I think, the humic acids and other sunbstances of peat, leaves etc. buffer the pH at a certain level.
What I experienced is the exact opposite: in newly setup tanks, it can be the case that pH-levels rise again, after water-change. Perhaps that’s because the biological system in the tank has to find its balance?
Of course you don’t need to filter or cycle your setup if you add plants with submerged roots, but I prefer a little circulation, so I use small sponge-filters. But thats due to my subjective feeling.3. In my opinion, moina and artemia (freshly hatched) makes a good staple. You can add all sorts of mosquito larvae if they are not too big for the paros…
I don’t know blackworm yet, but if they are not too big, it should work… try it.Good luck with your setup.
Martin
