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Hello bderooij
Thank you for joining the forum here, – I also have recieved your request via the distribution mail. You will recieve an answer from Bernd Bussler in Hamburg.
You are perfectly right to think that the best thing is to get in contact with a breeder, – unfortunately again, in the netherlands at this moment I am not aware of any nearby you.
But in Hamburg it would be possible if that is not too far away for you. Bernd will write to you about that.Another point which I would mention to you, is that if you do not have the experience with paros yet, – it is not adviseable to start with p. ornaticauda, as this is by far the most difficult species of all the species. Even experienced breeders have a hard time keeping these.
So there are many other species which is much more suitable and equally attractive for a person beginning with paros.Many kind regards Helene Schoubye
Hi Ormet.
Sorry for a little late reply.
The fish in the photos are not easy to determine, – the first could be a phoenicurus female, but to be honest, I am not sure.
The last like a male, but again, – not really sure that is a phoenicurus. They may be rather young fish also.
We would need better photos, with more flashing behaviour, – it is possible also in brown water – but sometimes it takes a long time. And if fish is young of course it will not happen just like that.The location mentioned, of course as far as I know sound correct in regards to phoenicurus, – but then again, – it may not be an acurate or even ‘true’ locality.
So, my advise 🙂 to wait, and in any case appreciate the fish whatever species it may turn out to be, – there always interesting aspects to be found.
Kind regards Helene
Dear Ormet.
I am sorry for being 4 days delayed on approving your post (always has to with the first post), I have been too busy the last four days, but still its too long.
But now your post will show as it should.
And welcome to the forumI would say, that it is probably likely that it is this acclimation behaviour, that they swim up and down a little. The fish on the photo does not look uncomfortable at all, – seems to be settling in and begin to show colours.
What I find with phoenicurus is that they are not so difficult a species.
Of course, a pair will always be more ‘harmonic’ than a group, – if there are two males, one will be the dominant and the other will be showing less bright colours, most likely, – sometimes a ‘second’ male will have to retreat to the back of tank, making you wonder if he is even there. They dont harm each other, but a ‘second’ and less dominant male can suffer in the long run.
And if you want to breed, you need to seperate a pair, and leave this pair on its own. Provide a cave, and a little shelter for the female, and its very likely they will breed, or attempt to.
It sounds to me like you are doing fine, – feeding frost is not in my experience very helpful, – I doubt they will take it. Tubifex can be used, I also do it in periods where I need some extra food, – but I use it really careful. Like one little worm and best to see it being eaten. The thing about tubifex is that they are very fat as far as I know, – and they hide, so they may not get eaten at all, and will only pollute the tank. With the small tanks and the absence of pumps etc, we need to be careful about how much we feed.Kind regards Helene Schoubye, admin
Just want to edit this post to mention that this should have been written with my own profile Helene, and not parosphr which is the admin account.
Just so that you know who is answering 🙂I understand your little bit of confusion 🙂 …
Considering the first photo which showed a clear linkei and some other species, to me it would be clear that the species may well have been mixed so I would keep that as a possibility all the way. (thinking of what you mention about different length of dorsal fins)
The males are clearly something in the line of ‘bintan’, but to say clearly is also really difficult. But bintan-like is maybe the best we can say at this moment. There are so many variations in this ‘line’ so its too hard to tell.
I think the males we can see clearly here, are quite beautiful and also interesting, – I cannot really say something more precise about them.
I would look out for a male and female that clearly ‘clicked’ and take them to a separate tank ( to get more flashing 🙂 and better photos, – and because I would then assume they might be same species)Just a short message 🙂 .. to all.
I am aware that some of you have entered new profile images, – I have to approve these as administrator, – I have not tried this yet, and I cannot find where it is… sorry – I will find it 🙂 …
Solved 🙂
Hello again.
The planned update will be taking place on tuesday next week, 6th of dec.
We plann to take the site off-line for some hours that day, perhaps all tuesday.I spoke to Rod yesterday, and he told me it will still be okay if there are new threads, so my precaution was unnessesary.
O Nico, I see this eventually and want to tell you that I gladly recollect our meetings in Paris last year! Hope you will find nice guys in the U.S. this way , and, at a later time, we shall meet again, at which place: nobody knows!
Peter Finke
So: I recommend to everybody who reads this: reply to Nico and try to contact him!The new photos confirm my presumption that they are not gunawani. I agree with Bartian. Compare our photo in the species section.
The broad bown band in the dorsal between the outer narrow whitish line and the inner hyaline band is typical for gunawani. It is not to be seen at all in these fish.
Peter Finke. (Just in this hour: great Crane-migration (Grus grus L.) north-eastwards just across our house, at least six formations with more than 1000 individuals).
It’s difficult to tell, but I do not think it’s gunawani:
1. The single male in the last picture seems to have the bright hyaline band in the dorsal fin rather close to the edge of the fin. Whereas it is quite typical for gunawani that it has this band lower down, and above – between that band and the narrow whitish line at the edge of the fin – a rather broad brownish-reddish band, which appears similarly on the anal fin. Unfortunately, the anal is nor realy to be seen at this photo.
2. The left male on the first photo might have that broad hyline band lower down, just as it is to be seen in the typical gunawani; maybe it’s an illusion because of the bad photo, or there are several fish mixed. This one at least could be gunawani.
3. Another typical feature of gunawani are the rather short ventrals. The colouring is quite allright, but especially the last shown single fish seems to have ventrals that are a bit too long. In typical gunawani the filament is not longer as the fin itself, perhaps a bit shorter (see our picture in the species section). This seems to be a bit longer.
But the determination is difficult with these photos. I think it’s not gunawani. I had them myself before.
Peter Finke (20.02.2014)All the fish we have of this species go back to one single import about twelve years ago by giant-wholesaler Glaser (Rodgau/Germany). It’s one of the few Paros which where not found and imported privately but commercially, but in small numbers only. On the stock lists nowadays they are missing everywhere. Tell me one which is different: There is none.
But now we have great numbers of them, mostly in Germany only, however. To repeat it: They all are offspring of that single import. Therefore, the possibility to get across this species in the trade is minimal. But someone who travels to Berlin, Hamburg or Weinheim (to name only the best places) has no problem to get them. Shipping across the boarders is not really safe, because it may take one day, it may take a week also. It’s no problem with two or even three days, but you cannot be sure. The species is one of the biggest Paros; it’s shipping should be short.
In Berlin lives our best specialist of this species. He has hundreds of them in all sizes, at every time. But there are enough at other places, too. The Weinheim-breeders ship them, of course, but the experience with shipping across the borders is poor, (see above).
Peter FinkeHelene: That’s remarkable an observation and photo indeed. I have never seen a parvulus as small as this one and nevertheless bearing the full colouring of a male.
On the other hand: The P. parvulus are indicating the sex earlier than other Paros, this is well-known. But your observation of a full-colouring again is a clear sign of a special sub-group they form together with ornaticauda. The results of the genetic analyses by our friend Lukas Rüber confirm that hypothesis of Hallmann’s and mine, that those two slim species are genetically markedly differentiated from the rest of the genus. It could not be excluded but – on the contrary – it is highly probable that they belong to a sub-group of Parosphromenus that really is a sub-genus; I once called it – not in severe a mood, but a bit ironically – “Para-Parosphromenus” or “Pseudoparosphromenus”. (If the name of the genus would not contain the prefix “para” already, this would be the right occasion to use it). Whether it is a different genus indeed and how to call it I leave to the ichthyologists, of course; one should not play with these things. But many signs lead into that direction (take the head-up display or that remarkable display dance which is not matched by anything in the other species).
Your observation confirms that hypothesis again.
Peter Finke
[quote=”Teunis” post=2112] I was ordering some glass worms, and came up whit some questions… [/quote]
Glass worms (Chaoborus or Chorethra, “weiße Mückenlarven”) are a very good food for bigger grown and adult Paros. Fed by them, they reliably get fertile (which often could be a problem, especially if fed by Daphnia).
But I should point out that two good German breeders during the last years had severe problems with glassworms from the trade. One of them lost his complete stocks of more than ten species of Paros and many growing offspring. Among them were extremely valuable fish that he had caught himself at the original sites, so surely been determined as the species known from there. The other friend lost the majority of his whole stock and offspring. There are indications that much more people made that experience but up to the present day do not realize what happens, what the cause has been.
And what was the cause of that losses? Quite clearly and without any doubt a contamination of the commercially harvested and stored glassworms; in both cases there was a definite proof of this. One should especially be warned against those small plastic envelopes which are sold in thousands with mostly an unclear origin. The glassworms inside obviously are treated by a heavy poison to make them more stabile in that small containers. Often some die and to prevent the others from being infected those poisons are used. Often this works well, as it seems, but there can be most catastrophic results for the fish fed by them. At any rate if you cannot catch your glassworms yourself from the next fish-free pool (what is best) you should keep them for quite a time in a big container with much new water; best is to net them and give them without old polluted water into it.
Peter Finke
P. Yap is a wholesaler who thinks in hundreds or thousands of a species, or even tens of thousands. His catchers are busy to catch the major part of a year’s production at a special place. He is not ready to answer questions of individual fish keepers; it’s a pity but so is the situation.
1. It’s a female.
2. It looks rather slim. I does not look like a female ready to spawn.
3. What are you feeding? To get licorice gouramis ready for spawning it needs some time and good food.
4. Very good are mosquito larvae, “glass worms” (weiße Mückenlarven), limited numbers of Grindal or Enchytraeus, freshly hatched (!) Artemeia nauliae, Moina macrocopa or Cyclops. Bad are Daphnia or Artemia which are some days old.
5. Did you see the male displaying already? With “sexy eyes”?
6. Did the female respond with sexy eyes? If not, it is not ripe for spawning.
7. Good feeding is the method you should take. And wait.
Peter FinkeThis indicates different species. Females with longer ventrals than males are completely unknown. Anyway, the ventrals are mosly a clear indication of species identity.
So, you certainly have bought at least two different speceis. I hesitate to renew my suggestion that you should breed them. Better have new look into the tanks of the trader, speak with him, and try to get another female fitting to the male’s ventrals and another male fitting to the female’s.
And we can learn from this: The description can in most cases be more exact than one thinks is sufficient in the first run. And I was too quick with answers, too.
And: Try to make photos!
