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Helene, your fish maybe tweediei nevertheless. We know that this species is sometimes more blueish; it seems to depend on environmental conditions, especially food. Our friend Prof. Peter Beyer from Freiburg university (Germany) caught at the locations in Western Malaysia himself for several times, and at the same place where the fish had been nearly fully red before, two years later he caught tweediei with much less red and much more blue in the fins.
He made some experiments in Germany with different food, and they resulted in an astonishing change of the colours. But the explanation is not fully complete.
Of course, since your fish are from trade and the trade is completely unreliable in choosing names as they just like, it could be something else, of course. But it can be tweediei nevertheless. If your parent fish look definitely like the unmistakenly red tweediei, then it is very likely that their children are tweediei although they do look more as opallios or alfredi. P. opallios is very improbable because that species is from Kalimantan and has very rarely been traded. P. alfredi is more likely, but the sites of that beautiful species are largely destroyed; I doubt that commercial fishers have much to find there. So, from this point of view it is the most probable solution that they are blue ancestors of the original red P. tweediei.
For decision, you should show the parents to us again.
Another important question is: When did you buy these fishes? P. alfredi has (to my knowledge) not been traded later than 2008 or 2009. perhaps not later than 2006.
I see this per chance in a hotel during a lecturing tour.
One of the best breeders we had was Allan Brown (P. allani) from Britain. He bred his fish in 5-liter-tanks, but he changed water daily.
A flashlight only:
We had for the first time ever abaout 500 true P. phoenicurus by commercial import in Germany. The import company asked the Sumatranian exporter to send some hundreds of the same species a second time; they responded: OK, we will.
Now the fish have arrived, again best condition, but no P. phoenicurus (from location Langgam); this time it’s P. spec. blue line from Sugai Tunkal (the location of “blue line”, a bintan-like variant).
What do we learn? It’s a matter of game/chance/fate what they really ship. The distinctions we make are of no importance to them. Paro = Paro.
There are some good suggestions in this mail of Jalmj’s. Let me respond to two of them:
1. Commercial importers: I suggest that readers of this European forum in the different countries name the foremost companies that have proved to be reliable importers of licorice gouramies in their country here in this forum. There are always the same names, but sometimes a new one is to be added. I think, the name of the company and the country would suffice; everybody can find an internet-URL himself. I suggest Helene should collect those names/countries and put it into one overview, after some time.
2. Breeders in Germany: Indeed, we have quite a few good breeders in our country with many offspring of different species at times. And often there is the problem to get these fish into the hands of good aquarists who are conscious about the special requirements of blackwater fish that eat live food only. The shipping of these fish is no problem in principle since very small containers (f.i. plastic bottles) suffice because they are no permanently swimming fish. A problem is temperature resp. season (cold winter! hot summer!) and time (customs! habits of different shipping companies!), even within the European Union. In other words: Shipping within the borders of one contry is much less risky than transnational shipping, even within the EU. Sometimes there are no problems at all, things go fast, sometimes it’s the contrary. Therefore, the time of the year right now is not the best to have first tries. I suggest that we see which companies would do such a job and what the costs are. That will need some time and the temperatures will rise again. The potential addressees could help by clarifying the customs conditions (especially the time needed) in your country. There maybe no problem at all, but there maybe many problems, too (for example if declared as “living animals”, and good companies do that).
All partners mus be clear about the risks. It is not possible to take the breeder/sender as the only one taking responsibility for that risks.
The costs for such a relatively reliable shipping accross the borders could be markedly higher than the simple price for the animals. This must be clear to anybody involved. The money must be transmitted before, but this is much easier now with SEPA-banking than it was before.
So, there is no opposition against shipping across the borders in principle. We are gladly willing to do this. But there is good and bad experience with the results. Once, the whole things needed two and a half days only form breeder to recipient, but on several occasions – although it was said to be a quick thing – the parcel was stored at a border/at a customs office for a week, and the animals were dead when at last it arrived. Maybe we can minimize that risks by choosing special companies and make a fair agreement on the risks.I shall add a last note: We are definitely willing to organize a first international meeting of the Parosphromenus-Project in September 2015 in Hamburg (Germany). There will be about ten species available. As soon as details are clear, we publish them here.
Arno, I think those devices could be of great help especially to people with many tanks. In my central array of Paro-tanks 24 of them (each 12 liters) are assembled on a small wall, taking not more space than a compact bookshelf. A photo of this has often been printed, in the Finke-Hallmann-book and here in the forum, too. Another row contains 6 of them, a third 3. Altogether I have 33 small 12-liter-Paro-tanks, lot of work if water change is tried to be practised once a week.
But it would be useful to explain your suggestion in more detail, Arno: What are these devices? You tell us they are used for toilets. But often there is a huge swimming device to be found controlling the water level. I do not see such a thing on your photos. How do your much smaller valves work? I think that they are used for filling the new water in. But before you have to get the old water out? Where have I to look or go for them? How expensive are they? And how do you manage the other end of the pipe, that is: the fresh water reserve? You have to prepare the right soft blackwater and store it somewhere. Is this centrally installed or is it mobile? In a fishroom you can do it the first way, in a living room preferably the second.
Your question: How often? will be answered in different a way. The best answer would be: As often as possible. In nature, all licorice gouramies live in slowly floating waters. Once a week a third would be great. But it’s an ideal, for me it’s far from reality. It works for some tanks but not for all. The living food for a single pair or small young is helpful: The deterioration of the tank water happens much slower than with fish fed on artifical food. But sometimes I need four weeks for a change, I must admit. In some cases there are even longer intervals. I do not recommend that, not at all, but it happens if you have many small tanks; and if the tanks are fed properly it will be tolerated by many species. If you feed very consciously this is mostly (it depends a bit on the species; the most distributed like linkei or filamentosus tolerate that) no problem. In a way you could control the readiness for spawning by this: The more you change, the more they spawn. Exactly for that situation: many small tanks, your devices could help substantially.
Therefore I think that your suggestion could prove very heplful to many of us, but more explanation for the laymen please! Go into the details!
[quote=”Arno” post=3961]Today I was able to pick up my ordered fish from the merchants. But there were only 2 of the 6 available. 🙁 Sold? The dealer wants to order replacement.[/quote]
A general remark: All queries concerning this special project are not issue of the Parosphromenus-Project but should be directed towards Aquarium Dietzenbach and My-Fish only. The P-P is not responsible for any inconveniencies regarding the correctness of those transactions.
Certainly, you are welcome here and can ask/write to the P-P with respect to sexual differences or details of care.I am not sure whether this strange structure is funghus; I had it myself several times. I do not know under which circumstances they occur, however. At any case, it is not dangerous at all.
But the other, more important thing is that small bubble-nest: At least on one picture is the bundle ob bubbles to be seen. Very rarely Paros build a small bubble nest within a thick structure of algae or higher plants, for instance Java moss. I had it myself twice with P. paludicola and P. linkei, too.The tea sieve method:
This method works perfect if one is forced to use bad Artemia with many egg-relics. Mostly eggs (cysts) and hatched animals are of different size. The supposition that both are of the same size is wrong. In any brand he eggs (cysts) are more or less bigger.
But:
– mind, that there are different species and variants of Artemia that all differ in the size of the cysts and the size of the hatched naupliae, and
– mind, that there are many different sieves for tea.Olivier Perrin, one of the best breeders worldwide of Paro’s, phaerichthys vaillanti and other blackwater fish from south-east Asia showed a perfect match to me: He uses a special Artemia brand with a special size of cysts and hatched animals, and he had a perfect match of a tea sieve accordings to that sizes. It sorts out unhatched eggshells at about 100%.
The best method to avoid that nuisance of a mixture of hatched naupliae and unhatched eggs is to buy the best quality. In Germany it’s Sander’s. The hatching success is nearly 100%. But it is very expensive. One canister costs nearly one hundred Euros.
The second best method is the right tea sieve. I saw this when I was in Paris with Olivier Perrin. He sieves the hatched brine shrimp a second time with a sieve that has exactly the right wideness to let the animals through and holds the unhatched eggs back. Probably you need little experiment to find the right sieve.
Very good, we are on the same line now, and I am happy to see further helpful ideas of yours that tell us from your successful practice.
Be welcome here, PeterOK, I have been too harsh with my comments, I see this. But, please note
-that your mailing did not contain the information that this is not the ordinary, not to say normal food, but an occasionally given additional one; I think this information (which you gave us now) is an important addition;
– that the picture of one of my tanks does not show such a “horticultural milieu” (my words) but a lot of open space usable for the fish for displaying. As I saw in Western Malaysia myself Paros in nature live in thickets of riparian grasses and wood, but need and use little spaces within for their courtship behaviour;
– that there are certainly several different methods for breeding these fish, between with quite many plants and without any plants, but I should not be an advocate for “any ideas” that lead towards that goal. There are better ones and lesser good ones, and there is a guide-line: the milieu conditions they find in unspoiled nature. And feeding on collemboles is not within this range, although they occasionally feed on an item which has fallen on the surface, too.
But you are right in correcting me. If you accept this correction of mine, we can go on.I am not convinced at all. Even in this video one can see that Paros don’t usually take food from the surface, they don’t like it. In nature, they do it very occasionally only. But if the aquarist offers them nothing else, they are forced to behave like this.
One should feed them the most natural food as possible. I am not against an occasional surface item, but as a main food it’s wrong. I doubt that they get fertile this way. This is always a good test. Feeding Paros by collembola: This is typical aquarist’ non-biological thinking.
As is the water garden to be seen here. It’s nearly impossible to maintain a stable low pH and a mineral content near zero in such a horticultural milieu.
Only one day after my information about possible P. phoenicurus I can confirm that it is this species, indeed!
I have seen a photo showing definitely a young male of this attractive species from Sumatra, the first import containing several hundreds of definite P. phoenicurus. There have been rumours since long, but we could not confirm this because of missing or bad or definitely false photos. This time things are different: The identification is sure, a photo shows this species without doubt. We even have a location that sounds good, for it names “Langgam” as the place where the fish have been caught. I have seen the photo myself and Martin Hallmann has seen it and he cornfirmed the identification, too.
Now attention please: We should act immediately! All who read this and are interested in getting some animals should write to me personally at once (peter.finke at t-online.de). I shall gather the names and postal adresses and forward them to Martin Hallmann who will visit the wholesaler in southern Germany in a few days to discuss how things could go on. It is improbable that he could sent the fsih personally to each of us; he is a wholesaler. We must discuss that; at present I collect names and mail and postal adresses of people who would liek to have some animals out of this stock.
I cannot say how to deal with people not living in Germany; but they should tell me their interest too. By the way, the animals seem to be in good conditions.
Of course, now it is possible that the species appears in other countries, too. It might have before, but now the species is confirmed.We cannot exclude the possibility of a species-mix, but it is less probable than in other cases sind that location seems to be cornfirmed, too.
Please act and tell me your interest and number of pairs. I cannot tell that this will work, but we should try.
So-called “deissneri” could be everything; we had imports that were factually Pseudosphromenus.
Mostly these fish are not interesting, bintan-variants. A stock of spec. Sentang at German company of Glaser’s consisted of 98% males!
Better concentrate on fish that you can buy directly from experienced breeders, if it is not a clear exception (which is possible, of course).
Again, the true deissneri lives endemically on Bangka only and was never imported by the trade. The trade is not active on Bangka. All our deissneris formerly were caught privately. But the stock is lost now. Only a private trip to Bangka could renew it.The rumours concerning phoenicurus do not stop. I just learn today (September 2nd) from Martin Hallmann that the German wholsaler Aquarium Dietzenbach has received a bunch of very good looking Paros form Indonesia which have been named “phoenicurus”. The manager of the company is no specialist and informed us at once.
We try to get more information. Without a picture of a male or at least a good description it is impossibe to say. But if the identification is correct, this would be a major import and interesting for many Paro friends.
