Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
That’s one of the remaining problems we have. I don’t know what is possible in the trade of the future but tzere are limitation set by commerce, This is one of the very good feature of the Parosphromenus aquaristics: Beginning with the fish and ending with the equipment we are very less dependant from the commercial trade than the main aquaristic modes.
We know that Parosphromenus feed heavily on shrimps in nature. But we obviously don’t receive those species up to now in the aquarium trade. And I don’t think that this is a matter of time only: The shrimp mode is not using the waters we need for Paros.
There have been some experiments with quite a few shrimp species available but nearly all of them failed because the water near to destilles water is improper for them all. Only one species was able to stand it for quite a long time, and that is Neocaridina parvidentata, a rather small greyish species that could multiply quickly. But is very rarely traded. Why? Because the aquarium trade concentrates on species for the bulk of aquarists as it concentrate on them with fish. Just as the Paros are only rarely traded because on cannot make money with them the same is valid for shrimps.
But Neocaridina parvidentata (I do not know any English or German name) is probably not the best companion for Paros, since in all communities we know they did not survive more than half a year. If the Paros have very small young, they are being eaten by the shrimps, and if the shrimps have young they are being eaten by the adult Paros. Nevertheless, it’s the only species available sometimes that stand such a water.
The conclusion is clear and I mentioned it already: Obvioulsy we do not know the right species of shrimps upt to now, at least: We do not have them.
What should we learn from this? The idea of constructing a nature-like living community tank for Paros is good an idea, but it is presently hardly to to realized. We should concentrate on breeding the rare Paros and watch their interesting and diversifeid behaviour instead of trying to build a community for which we don’t have the means to do it properly. You cannot imitate the huge peat body, the ever flowing fresh water stream, the bulk of tropical invertebrates, including infusoriae, herons, kingfishers. Ans the point is: You must not. You could produce healthy, lively fish with the reduced means of the aquarium structure. I have often seen that people do not realize the huge difference in the structure of an aquarium as compared with nature. We must try to imitate the natural conditions, but there are restrictions for it. Some are changing, some are rather stable. some are dependent from the offers of the trade, some are different in principle.
Try your setup, but I have a different opinion:
1. If you think of healthy and strong fish that’s good, but why then don’t you think of healthy and strong plants? RO water is not the adequate water for Vallisneria and Ceylon-crypts. They may survive but they are not adequate to a blackwater environment.
2. Certainly, being accompagnied by Boraras is in principle a good idea for Paros. But it’s always a matter of what you want to achieve. The “survival of the fittest” in such a tank will result in slowly all young being eaten. Mind, that in the case of the Paros you are dealing with fish that are doomed to extinction. In my view this means at the first hand trying to propagate them, not to buy enough wild-caught to arrange a nice community tank. But maybe this is a somewhat extrem opinion. If you think that to an end consequently you should add Luciocephalus and even Channa to your community. An aquarium always has a structure which omits several important features of a natural community.
3. No young Paro will feed for about four to six weeks on Grindal worms. You will need Rotatoriae at best, or Paramecium as second best, maybe you are lucky with the smallest Artemia naupliae, the California type. Most Artemia are too big in the beginning.
4. Paros in small breeding tanks are no “lazy captive fish”. They have been givven the chance to propagate; a chance which is very small in your set-up.
But do it like you want; I wish you success. You wanted to hear my opinion.
[quote=”Sverting” post=1500]
20 x Boraras maculatus
8 x P. bintan ‘Sentang’
unknown number of Melanoides tuberculata, and Anentome helena.Answer: If you intend merely to keep the licorice gouramis, then this is a perfect community. But if you itend to breed them, you will probably be not successfull. The tank is too big and there sould be only one pair, at most two of the gouramis. A small cave is the most important requisite.
Filtration consists of one Aquael Versamax FZN-1 cascade filter with specification availible here
— first chamber is filled with peat moss granules
— second chamber is with ceramics and spongeAnswer: Filtration is of secondary importance. All chambers should be filled with peat. The streaming should be very soft.
Temperature is set to 25 +/- 0.5 degress Celcius.
Answer: OK, but it could be 23 degrees or 26 degrees, it does not matter much.
Lighting consists of two Aquael Ecolight 11W Modules working in a set 24h cycle
— firt module 9-16
— second module 12-20Answer: Lighting is of importance only for you and your plants. The licorice love subdued light.
I used normal sand I got from a river.
Answer: The gravel is for the licorice gouramis of minor importance. You need it for the plants (see below) But there is no “normal sand”. You must test it whether it contains calcium. Then it is useless. The most important thing is not mentioned by you: Leaves of beech or oak, soaked shortly in boiling water. A layer of that is recommended for all licorice tanks.
Plants used are:
-[i]Vallisneria spiralis
-Cryptocoryne wendtii
-Ceratopteris thalictroides[/i]
….Answer: Mind,that you must use nearly destilled water with very low pH! You will be unable to grow Vallisneria ranks of Ludwigia, and the Ceylon-Crypts (C. wendtii and others) in it! The only useful plant you mention is Ceratopteris. You should use Javamoss and perhaps Javafern, too. Some ranks of Ludwigia, that’s all. Very few plants grow in extremly soft and acid blackwaters!
it’s 70 litres tank measuring 50x40x35 cm.
Answer: As I said before, a nice tank, but not useful for breeding Paros. Too big, you will be unable to find the young and to feed them. Maybe, a few will grow up feeding on whatever, but not in company with the nice Boraras.
About water parameters: I’m not sure of them, but it comes from RO filter with a peat chamber, so it is soft and acidic, of that I am sure.
Answer: The water parameters are the most important thing. They need not to be at a very special value, but definitely without calcium, the conductivity well below 100 microsiemens/cm, better below 50, the ph well below 7.0, better 5.0 to 6.0, stable. Paper stripes are useless, too inexact. Take at least a measurng kit with fluids. Electronid equipment is best, but expensive and must be calibrated rightly, otherwise the values are often wrong.
Summary: I t will be a nice tank for keeping a small south-east Asian community, but some plants are improper and breeding will hardly be possible. You must realize that a blackwater aqaurium is something different than a normal planted tank. In such a planted tank the biochemical activity of the plants constantly feed on the contents of the water and actively change them. You cannot copy this for the blackwater organisms. Therefore you must omit plants altogether or use only those which adapt to the very special conditions of the peat swamps.
Stefanie, I did not want to teach you things you know; excuse me. But mind that there are many readers of our forum who do not know these things. I (and you) must be aware of them when writing things here.
But you are right: I did not reply to your main question: Is that type of colouring at the throat and head of the Pekan Nenasi type of male nagyi specific for that type?
The answer is: no. The other types show these colours too. Maybe there are some faint differences but they are not as striking as one could imagine and as would be a reason for mentioning this soecially with Pekan Nenasi.
But you have another question: Is it not necessary to include this into the species descriptions?
The asnwer is: Partly it is mentioned, if you mean the original desription of nagyi bei Dietrich Schaller 1985. But: That is a short description. For modern standards it is too short. It is not as short as the descriptions of harveyi and allani bei Barbara Brown (which, in a way, are no descriptions at all, only announcements of descriptions that never followed). But the rule is: The first descritions is valid, and so are that of Brown and that of Schaller.
But there is another thing to be said: The description of the colour of a new species must not be “complete” but it needs only to mention the distinguishing markers that make the species a difference to other species formerly described. Take the latest descritions we have got, that of gunamwani and phoenicurus only some weeks ago by Schindler and Linke. Take only phoenicurus: Many of the striking colour features if that species are missing, are not mentioned at all. But that was not necessary. They confined themselves rightly to the distingushing markers.
But perhaps you did not think of the scientific desciptions but of the decriptions that I wrote for this homepage in the “species”-category. Well, I shall have a look on them again. But they have a clear intention: to help peoplce to identify their licorive gouramy, not to describe the colours as fully and comprehensive as possible. That would not add to identifiability. But, as I said, I shall have a new look on them. I shall not exclude that you pointed out a valuable thing.
There are at least three problems hidden in your question respectively observation.
The first is the light. All colours are partly products of light, they need light to be realized by those who should realize them (and by those who should not, the enemies). The intensity of light, the angle or direction of light respectively the body of the fish towards the light and the spectral composition of the light, its kelvin-type: all this changes the appearance of a fish that is accustomed by evolution to dark peat streams in rainforests. They are in need of the occasional sun beam and therefore turn their bodies and fins just for catching them. In the aquarium we have a steady light source of a steady composition and it is often too bright. We, the observer, see the colours from a fixed sidely angle and we see them according to our eyes and physical means of viewing them.
The second problem is that there are two types of colours. Those that are produced by pigments and those that are produced by structure. The red of our European Robin is of the first type; it is permanently to be seen from many angles and a bit dull. The blue of our European Bluethroat is of the second type: There is no blue pigment at all, but a special structure of the feathers. Being hit by light in special angles it appears strikingly and glitteringly blue. We have both types with the licorice. In their mostly to be seen normal appearance we mainly see its pigmentally caused colours. This includes the “black” of the lower part of the male nagyi-body. But in special situations and light-angles you see a second type of colours which is normally hidden by the pigments and the steady angle of light, and it is cause by the structure of the scales and scutes of the fish. That is the greenish or blueish tinge you decribe as appearing in certain special situations on the gills, the throat, in the fins.
But there is a third problem too, and it is the most interesting. There are not only two colour types and two appearances of a licorice gouramy – the dull normal colouring and the striking colouring in courtship and display – but there are more. One very effective colouring is that for aggression which intensifies the main colours distinctly. You can provoke it by using a mirror. There are some photos of licorice gouramies in this aggressive mood that have become possible by use of this means. And there is the colouring caused by situations of fear: a more scattered picture of a reduced apperance of the usual stripes mixed with vertical structures (reminding a bit at the colours of the offspring that especially must be prevented from being found by hungry other fish and kingfishers!). There are many photos showing us our fish coloured like this. Most photos taken shortly after the catch from the natural habitat are of this type. Many photos showing them in special photo-tanks without enough structures to hide and the light being too bright either. In the aquarium we don’t see this type very often since we omit the aggressors from the small tanks and the fish become rather quickly used to its permanent outfit and structure.
At least these four types of colouring must be distinguished. And we often see a certain mixture of all of them, at least for some seconds before it changes to one clear type. It is one of the problems of the many photos of our fish that they mix all these types and show them in different situations, often dominated by the duller types, but sometimes mingled with the striking colours of display and aggression, too. Many new friends send us photos and ask: What species is that? From those photos it is often impossible to say, not only because there are these many bintan-like forms in trade or because we see females or males in their normal appearance, but often because we see fish not yet grown up or not yet accustomed to their new home.
Dear Mike, what you observed is simple to explain. As you told yourself, freshly spawned eggs are the best caviar of the world. It is quite natural that the Sphaerichthys fed on them; they will do so in nature too, many other co-inhabitants of the Paro’s habitats do if they get them. Normally this is difficult for two reasons. Firstly, the licorice gouramis look for caves, that means small darker rooms with a near bottom and and near ceiling. Since the eggs ar heavier than water they will inevitably sink down after having been produced by the female and inseminated by the male. But many of them will be hold by the bend of the parents’ bodies and especially the anal fin of the female. Nevertheless they will continue to sink down after the torpidity of the parents has ended. But if there is no free or long way to the bottom where they could disappear but a short way of an inch or less, the male and the female are programmed to catch them and bring them to the ceiling of the cave. So, the first thing one should do at any rate is to present small caves (in a small tank of ten or twenty liters and one pair only one is enough) which prevent the eggs from sinking a long distance to the ground. But there is a second mistake you made (if we let apart that in presence of other fish these always will try to feed on the fresh eggs of a spawing pair) and this is that you most surely used the wrong water. So this is the second reason why in nature the enemies will not get many eggs: caught by the parents and brought up to the surface of the cave they will stick.
It was the main discovery of Dr. Walter Foersch in the seventies of last century what the reason for non-sticking is. And therefore we call him the father of Parosphromenus-aquaristics. He executed a long series of experiments that doubtlessly proved water conductivity to be the decisive factor for that problem. Especially the lime-content of the water is resonsible for non-sticking eggs. Mind, that in the home waters of Paros there is no lime at all. You should provide such a water at any rate, otherwise the eggs – if collected and brought to the ceiling of the cave – will not stick. Materials of the cave, the structure of the surface, the colour and other factors are irrelevant. It is – as far as we know today – the lime-free water that ensures the sticking. Cheap papers or sticks for measuring that are useless; they are much too inaccurate. You must use at least fluid measuring kits, better electronic equipment (which is calibrated correctly!). Even slight amounts of lime suffice to prevent sticking. The aim is: no lime at all. There can be some other ingredients, there must be, for no organism can live in pure H2O. But the licorice are near to that. Many breeders use pure water from their reverse-osmosis-system, or pure rainwaters from non-polluted areas, or they mix pure destilled water with a few minerals and humine substances, but no lime. Humine substances are important, too. But the main thing is freeness (or nearly freeness) of lime. Your water, whatever you used, could not have been of this quality. Otherwise the eggs would stick.
Many people seem to think they could produce the right Paro-water by adding industrial additives offered by the aquarium industry. That’s nonsense. You only could produce the right water by removing not by adding. You must remove solved minerals from the water, and that’s the solution for this problem. Only humine substances could and should be added, all others must be removed. The pH is irrelevant for all this. It’s a means for keeping bacteria and other germs at a low level. This is important for the life of the eggs and in the eggs, but not for the sticking or non-sticking.
I once have seen a very fine aquarium of about 200 liters that hosted a nice blackwater community of Parosphromenus, Sphaerichthys and some others. But the owner bred his fish himself in separate small tanks. When there were many of them, he composed that fine bigger community tank. I think, this is the right way to act.
That’s good an idea to give this link. And we are grateful to Stefanie for this.
I have some experience with this shop, too, an it is ambivalent but mostly positive. Indeed, there are not many shops offering live foodI and this one of the few, even offering some rare cultures. However, I once was disappointed by dead content arriving (Daphnia magna and Moina). But this was only once in a very hot summer. At other times they arrived live (Moina and Paramecium and Rotatoria).
We should collect such addresses in our link section, even for other countries.
Here is another German one specially for Moina: see http://www.moinashop.deStefanie, very good indeed. That’s the first photos we have of the Pekan-Nenasi-males, and it shows clearly that it is not of the Cherating- but more of the Kuantan-type. In the two last photos we see very clearly that the rays of the caudal fin extend rather longly from the fin’s end, so that the fin itself appears to be short. That is not as obvious like this in the Cheratibg-type. And the colour of the stripe in the caudal is whitish as opposed to blueish in the Cherating-type. So the Pekan-Nenasi-type is much closer to Kuantan than to Cherating.
Stefanie, thank you very much for this new thread that will certainly interest many people. The problem with Fontinalis antipyrectica is temperature again. There are plants from slightly warmer regions and many from cold ones; the latter dominate in Europe and the mosses are less suitable for a warmer aquarium. But if you are lucky and find a population adjusted to warmer waters they are wonderful. You are totally right in recommending it for Paro-tanks.
I experimented with some mosses that are sold by the aqiarium trade since several years. Again the problem are the special water values with the Paro-waters and sometimes little light. But generally it’s rewarding to use them. But most of them grow rather slowly, much slower than “Javamoss”.
In Europe we are obvioulsy not using “blackworms” at all.
Could anybody give here the latin name of that animals and tell how to breed them?
Two inches is certainly too big for a licorice gouramy, but the adults can swallow rather big food. Larvae of midges (“mosquitos”, “glassworms”, etc.) are picked out of everything else, and they try they biggest first. Sometimes they are too big, but often they succeed. Astonishing. Nauplii of Artemia are good food, but as only food they are too small for grown up Paros.
I think these leaves are very helpful indeed. The problem ist quality. There are different qualities on the market, those that fight bacteria (this should be the case) and those that produce them. The lighter and drier they are the better. Use them at any rate dry.
I usually put one leave flatly on the backside glass of my small 10-liter-tanks; I should think it would be enough even in a tank double this size. But you must know that slowly the effect of killing bacteria may turn into the contrary when the leave ages. One should replace it at any rate after a quarter of a year at the latest. It slowly decays and will become foul and smeary; then out, at the latest, and a new on in. But they are really helpful if fresh and dry. They must be fixed by a piece of wood used in my manner.
There is no new filamentosus-species but a fish that was first called cf. filamentosus when we did not know anything about its origin. Now we know that it comes from the Kalimantan-region around the town Ampah north of Banjamarsin, south of Murateweh, and the fish are rightly called spec. Ampah. Whether they are a subspecies of filamentosus is quite unclear. The known locations of filamentosus are near to the south, however.
The fish have rather little colours; sometime they appear a bit “black and white”. But nevertheless they look attractive because of relatively big fins especially with the males.
Sphagnum is the latin name of the most important genus of peat-building mosses in the northern European and American bogs. Stefanie obviously did not think of peat but of living plants that grow in peat ditches and built our peat over thousands of years.
It’s good an idea since Sphagnum needs very acid environments with rather low pH similar to those in the homelands of our fish. The only problem I see is temperature. I do not know whether Sphagnum tolerates higher temperatures. I tolerates very low temperatures since it exists in the north of Norway and equally in northern Canada. Unfortunately I do not know what it’s southern border is. There might be a need for high concentrations of oxygen bound to those low temperatures, but that should be tested. Another problem could be light. Living Sphagnum needs much light. It is constantly growing at the uppermost end, the surface of the wet peat, and it immediately dies to peat if overgrown by itself. In the case of dying it lacks light and it does not need it any longer, but living it needs a great amount of it. One must try.
We do use some European plants in or near the water in tropical aquaria that normally do not live in countries with higher temperatures, for instance Lysimachia nummularia or Hottonia palustris. Maybe our Sphagnum stands it, maybe not. But equally other Sphagnum species may exist in the homelands of our fish, too, participating on the peat building processes over there. Is there anybody here who knows? It would be not astonishing that the aquarium trade has not discovered them as Aquarium plants for they would be useless for the standard aquariums and without use commercially. They really need very low pH, do not only stand it.
Well, one should have a try. But you may not remove those plants from Nature reserves; it’s rightly forbidden. Try to find a region where this is possible without harming the biotope.
I think a tank of 40 gallons is too big for keeping licorice gouramis properly. They are not fish for swimming and they tend to hide. You will not be able to breed them, to raise the young, to feed them, even to find them (the young).
I keep them in 12 liter tanks, 20 are good, also.
In my tank there are no filters whatsoever. Filters are mainly for people who feed the usual industrial food, and this to bigger fish or many fish that produce much waste. You don’t have this problem with Paros.
The only really useful aspect of a filter for Paro-keeping is that it keeps the water moving. But mostly the water movement is to heavy. A small filter driven by air bubbles ist better than any other.
You cannot replace the regular changing of water by filtering. The waste (although it is very little in a Paro-tank) must be removed out of the water-cycle. A filter does not achieve this. It only replaces the waste from flowing freely in the water to a narrow place in the filter. But the water is always drawn through it until you remove it.But why do you ask this in the category “species”? We have a category “methods”, for instance. We should try to keep the wohle thing clear in order to be able to find things again.
The “wood” that is sold in pet shops for the use in normal aquaria belongs to totally different sorts of wood. Wood from peat regions is the best, but it is normally sold dried out and that is bad already. If you are once able to get hold of f r e s h wet wood pieces from bogs or swamps, take it. It’s just the best. If you only get hold of dried pieces, you must soak it before some days in destilled or at least pure rain water and continue to measure pH and conductivity.
There are many sort of “oak-wood” sold, too, and it is impossible to tell generally it to be goood or bad. You must try. And I don’t remember the place, but I warned to use Mopani-wood some time ago. This African wood is entirely useless resp. wrong for use in blackwater tanks with a stabile low pH.
A good alternative to fresh bog wood from peat regions is alder from creeks or small rivers, but only dead pieces that could be collected under water.
Therefore mind: Wood is not the same as wood. And pet shops sell many things that are entirely useless for Paro-lovers.
“What shows up in the new fry that would prove something about the species?”
Vigour, vital energy. No colours, no special information about a species, but the fact that they live and thrive, prosper. Hybrids (in most cases) if they ever leave their eggs are often weak, don’t feed, die soon. There maybe close hybrids of course that do well, but normally they don’t. We know very little about this for Parosphromenus, however.
