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Helene describes it fully correctly (only the name of the central town is to be spelled Kuantan, no “g” at the end). And the photos make it evident that you have the Kuantan-type. It’s the type of the original descriptions. The most prominent feature is the relatively short tail (most prominently in the male animal, with rays extending beyond the end of the fin) and – especially – the whitish band in the tail. In other forms (esp. Cherating) this band is blueish or greenish the same way as in the dorsal or the anal fins. There is no colour dofference in this respect. Because of the rather widespread home-range we have other forms (Pekan Nenasi or other settlements, see species account) that seem to be optically identical with the first or the second. Therefore our hitherto knowledge is that there are only two easily discernable forms, the two I named. And the most easy mark of identification is the colour of that striking band in the caudal.
Thanks to Martin Hallmann I can add a very good article on the culture techniques of Moina as they were developed in Florida. Things work easier too, but the article goes into the fundamentals and is very informative. It was first written 1992, then revised in 2003 and newly reviewed 2011:
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa024
At the end they name two people of the University of Florida as sources for Moina: Scott Graves and Robert Leonard, Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory, 1408 14th ST SE, Ruskin, FL 33570, (813)671-5230.
The species mostly recommended is Moina macrocopa.Andy, we must speak more exact and speak about species. It is not sufficient to speak about the genus Moina.
You have Moina salina in mind, I spoke of Moina macrocopa. The first is a saltwater form and I have no experience with it. The latter is a freshwater form and it is that Moina which is talked about when we have Parosphromenus in mind. I learn that some Killifish friends use M. salina, but all is much easier mth M. macrocopa.
You are right with your remarks on Ephippia. I cannot say anything about M.salina, but there are Ephippia with M. macrocopa. However, to my knowledge they cannot be stored and canned like the cysts of Artemia. I only once encountered them indirectly in my M. macrocopa vessels: The adult animals had died for some reason and I did not clean up the vessel (because of laziness). Nothing was swimming around any more for days, even weeks. But about a fortnight or three weeks later there were Moina again. I never have encountered this a second time, but in principle it proves the existence of Ephippia. Unfortunately I was not able to repeat that by experiment. Unfortunately they obviously cannot be stored in a dried form as we woud like they could (as e.g. Daphnia). Maybe this is different with M. salina; I don’t know.
Your remark on the reason why you don’t use saltwater organisms for freshwater fish (to prevent the extremely pure water to be enriched with minerals) does not fit to your speaking of M. salina. Maybe, M. salina is comparable to Artemia salina: There is no reason to be afraid of destroying the labile blackwater milieu if you wash that food in soft freshwater before feeding by using a sieve suited to the tiny organisms. I never had such problems. They still live for some hours even in softest freshwater, but you should feed only tiny quantities that are eaten within minutes. The huge advantage of M. macrocopa is the fact that they need no saltwater, could be fed nearly directly and could live for days in your tank. Even the adults are rather small, and then there are smaller forms of all ages. The youngest of them are as tiny as the freshly hatched Artemia naupliae. And contrary to Daphnia they are soft, without hard shells, the fish eat them eagerly and could become fertile by them. This latter is the same with Artemia.
However, mostly M. are not easy to get hold of; in Germany we normally get our starting populations from other breeders. They could easily be fed by baker’s yeast, and algae and some special solutions are possible too. There is one great difference to breeding Daphnia pulex: The m. macrocopa live in a high density of food particles; if they are not fed every day anew the animals can be lost within days. But if the proliferation once has started, a tiny vessel could produce so much most excellent food for quite an assembly of pairs and their young.
So, I would conclude that M. macrocopa (sometimes they are called M. macrocarpa; I don’t know which is right, the former it seems to me) is the right Moina for Parosphromenus.
At the first international meeting next September in Hamburg we will sell starting populations.The name “deissneri” is definitely wrong. The real deissneri have been never traded commercially up to the present day. It is much too complicated and expensive for the fish trade to go to the island of Bangka only for this species. And the catchers don’t know the differences at all. Often, they throw all fish together in one box if at the first place the result was only poor. So they like the places where they find spec. Sentang; there are many of them.
You can see the peculiarities of male true deissneri easily in our species account.
Good luck and try to breed your spec. Sentang (and the others too, of course)! Could you describe the males or better make some photos?You should list your fish as spec. Sentang from Jambi/Sumatra. It’s the most sold form of our genus during the recent years. So I guess that you received them by buying them in a shop, not from a private breeder. The aquarium trade only rarely imports Parosphromenus but if they do it’s only a very few species easily to be caught in great numbers. Mostly all are called “deissneri” which is nonsense. But people have dificulties to differentiate between the different forms. All imports are wild caught, young of the last breeding period. And Sumatra is the formost exploited area as Paros are concerned. And the hitherto undescribed spec. Sentang is quantitatively speaking the most and easiest caught and therefore the most sold. Unfortunately it is hitherto undescribed. But it is obviously very near to P. bintan as you rightly suppose. We cannot say nowadays if it is identical with bintan or whether it is a subspecies or a semispecies deverloping to a good species or what else. It is reasonable to keep it apart.
Since long we want to describe the most important of the hitherto undescribed forms on our homepage (“Other forms”). But it is difficult for different reasons. Nevertheless I hope that we succeeed with the most wanted and most sold forms in the nexts months. The spec. Sentang is certainly among them.As far as I know there are no saltwater Moina and surely no Moina cysts. This is obviously a short but wrong way of speaking among aquarists. Some of them in our country have formerly called the Moina macrocarpa “freshwater Artemia”. That’s the same nonsense vice versa and only means that there is a species of very small and easy to grow live food (Moina) that in some respect (easy and fast breeding, smallness, the youngest as small as Artemia naupliae) resembles Artemia but with the big advantage that they live in fresh water and not in salt water. There are Artemia cysts easily to be boxed and bought, but there is not the same with Moina. There are no “permanent eggs” (cysts) boxed in tins or cans and sold in the shop. The whole biology is totally different. It’s a totally different organism. More like Daphnia or Bosmina, but different from them, too.
The point is that our Parosphromenus very much like the soft Moina and rather dislike the hard Daphnia. And the breeding of Moina resembles that of Daphnia, but is different also. The most striking difference is that Daphnia like oxygen-rich clear water, whereas the Moina like less oxygen-rich water which is often not clear at all but full of nutrients. The reproduction can be very fast. Every two or three days you can feed all your Paros with Moina of all stages. But often the reproduction will not work, too. That depends on the very different biology of Moina if compared with Daphnia. one must learn it but then it’s easy. In any case it is highly recommended to try to get them and to use them. Paros will thrive.
Fortunately, in a former mail here an British address was mentioned. And I just received a mail by our new member Dr. Stephen Simkins from Western Massachusetts, a micro biologist, who told me that “Carolina Biological” (I don’t know what that is exactly) sell Moina cultures in the U.S.
My last recommendation is to attend our first international Meeting of the Parosphromenus-Project at the end of September 2013 in Hamburg, Germany. At least ten species of licorice gouramis could be bought there, and Moina!It is just as Paul says: The main problem is getting such fish via parcel shipped to the UK. Temperature is the main problem. Paros can survive four or five days without problems in tiny plastic bottles hiding below a leaf because they don’t swim very much. But the temperature should not fall below 15 degrees Celsius. And we really don’t know how long the parcel will take to reach it’s final destiny. More than a week and things get critical. But maybe there is a solution, even for Hugues’ fish? Tell it here!
Generally speaking: There was no problem in Britain as Paro’s are concerned as long as Allan Brown was active as one of the best breeders of these fish ever. Every year he bred many species and variants with great success and brought all of them to the continent. But about three years ago he quit all his fishkeeping, and now Britain is a “distressed area” in this respect. It’s a pity!
In Germany, the many pupils of Dr. Walther Foersch have established a wide net of breeding Paro’s; nearly all species and quite a few variants are available. Our distribution network works quite well, but now winter is approaching; this will hamper the exchange of these fish over long distances.
But let me remind you of an important date: next autumn, 2013 (!), 28./29th September, we will organize in Hamburg the first international meeting of the Parosphromenus-Project (with lectures by M. Hallmann, H. Linke and others, simultaneously translated). Maybe, some American or Asian visitors will come, too; I shall ask Olivier Perrin from Paris to talk to us and so on. And there will be at least ten species available in greater numbers (among them two forms of nagyi, of linkei, filamentosus, quindecim, spec. Langgam, harvey, possibly parvulus, ornaticauda, and others). We would be very glad if some visitors from Britain would come and take many of these fish back home for their friends. We could and should organize this well in advance, beginning now.
So, I hope, Hugues will find a way for his fine collection, maybe in Britain, but that is up to him and the opportunities that we need for such a travel. The other thing is the long-term schedule: please note that date and place that I mentioned. There will be more information on it in newsletters to come.
### I just see the last posting of Andy’s now, it obviously was written simultaneously with me writing my message. Andy: a very good idea! We have some breeders with many species. If you come around I can organize the contacts and you could catch (nearly) as many fish as you want. If this i sthe right way, then write to me personally using: peter.finke@t-online.deThis is really exemplary!
Hugues van Besien is a well-known expert of anabantoid fish and a good friend of the Parosphromenus-Project; in fact, he is the translator of our website into the French language.
What he does here should be a model for all who are forced somehow to give their collection of valuable fish away because they foresee a difficult time to come. I know of at least five similar cases in which no such attention was payed to that moment, and a valuable collection of licorice gouramis was distributed in all directions, mostly by giving the fish to an ordinary pet shop. I know of merely no such shop which is able or willing to provide the special tanks with special water and special food, much hiding and low lighting, and so these rare fish must stand adverse life conditions until some average aquarians buy them as a supplement for their community tank. That’s the reality. In other cases these fish were distributed at a meeting or fish-fair to interested aquarians personally, but nearly none of them was equipped mentally or by equipment to house or even propagate those fish adquately.
Therefore congratulation, Hugues, to your idea of writing this, well in advance, so that there is enough time to plan that transaction for a good end.
Hugues’ stock contains two species that are rare and difficult to get hold of even in the middle of Europe: P. parvulus and P. ornaticauda. Not many Paro-aquarists who are able to breed other species succeed with these two either.
So, let’s hope that things end well by finding one or two persons who are willing and equipped to keep and further breed this stock. I gladly will help by including the case into a newsletter (and I gladly will do the same in similar cases). It’s very good indeed that Hugues announces this months before the critical moment will come. We all should conceive of this as a model how to behave if a similar situation is foreseen in one’s own life.Very good indeed, Martin! That’s good news! I shall think it over and wie will surely find a solution. If you can fetch the fish personally from Berlin, then we shall find a species which you can get there from our friends.
I shall write to you as soon as possible. And I very much hope that there will be some others who have the same idea!Mike, you are fully right in saying that we normally look for the males and do not do the same for the females. Yes, this is a mistake. One of the consequences is that we are very bad in recognizing female licorice gouramis. They seem to look more or less the same, but that is wrong. Admittedly, they are much more difficult to be differentiated from one another, but at least in about half of the species it is possible. Still more interesting is the female behaviour in display and courtship. So your video is a valuable help in correcting our modes of looking at these fish.
Thank you!Hi Mike, it would be very nice if you could describe such local shops in your country, or just the one you vivited. Mind that many paople from all over the world visit our site, and the pet-shops look very different in different countries. What fish are they selling mainly? In what situation did you find the licorice gouramis? Why was it a situation to “rescue” them? Is there a lot of nonsense-plastic material be sold in that shops? What about the plants: Are that real plants or plastic? What about the water they use? What about the food they use? How often did you see licorice gouramis?
And so on. Many people would be interested to read such a short report. And you should say which country itis.
And another question: Do you have local friends who keep or breed fish? Which they prefer? How many aquaria do they care for? How big or small are they? Are they highly technizied or not? And so on.
You should always mind: This forum is not for Asia alone. We would like to instigate the keeping and breeding of licorice gouramis and the intensive talk about their problems in Asia; the internal communication in the home-lands of these fish on land-change, on the logging of rainforests, on the destruction of biodiversity should be intensified. But many people from other countries and continents read this too. There is a great number of aquarists who never kept Parosphromenus fish themselves, but are keen to read about them, about their home, their problems, about the situation in Asia.
Best wishes!Mike: Congratulations, that is a very nice video of displaying males. They show aggressive colours, especially as sometimes a female is to be seen.
Do you have more of these videos? We would be glad to see them here.
By the way: I think, your diagnosis is right. The fish seem to be P. spec. Sentang from Sumatra.
Did you buy them in a shop? Do you keep still other species of licorice gouramis?Nicolas sent me this news some days earlier already still from Malaysia. As I hear from him all caught fish have been safely transferred to Europe. Very good, Nico!
But there are two questions left:
1. The question of Nathea, especially do the males resemble the Kuantan-type (with short caudals and a white band in the caudal) oder the Cherating-type (with longer caudals and a blue band in the caudal)? Or do they represent still a third type?
2. The pH (see photo) is markedly higher (7.42) than mostly measured and conveniant to black-water fish. I assume this to indicate a severely influenced milieu by human interference. I do not think that the fish will survive this conditions longer than one or two years. They will not really be able to propagate here; the eggs will be destroyed by bacteria before hatching. If there are nagyi to be found for a longer time, they will come from a distant source area still unspoiled by plantations or other noxious threats, I guess.Romain, I want to encourage you, too, just as Bartian and Patrick did! You seem to be very sensitive as water conditions are concerned, and I think you could try species like P. linkei or P. filamentosus; they are not as fastidious than many others. I should not recommend the undescribed spec. Sentang as the first Paro although it presently might be that variety which is most easily to be found in some pet shops. It is a variety of P. bintan and that needs more exacting care. The two I mentioned are better.
Do you need addresses of breeders in France (I guess you are from France, is that right? Which town?). If you need addresses, please write to our distribution-service (see the button “distribution”).
By the way, we have some very young members, and they are doing very well!
Good luck, PeterHi Boris, of course you can remove the larvae instead of the parents, but it’s more risky. Therefore I did not mention it. At any rate you have to use exactly the same water. But obviously you did everything allright.
And it’s true: There are differences of the use of the caves to Betta. With Parosphromenus, you need no additional holding structures for eggs and larvae; indeed, it’s dangerous. So: better remove it.
But congratulations to your first young Paros! Now try to raise them! If the young take Artemia,you have won. P. filamentosus is a very nice species. You certainly will agree with me.
