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Dear Svein, thank you for your informations. I do not understand what you mean by brutto and netto temperature. It’s quite a difference …
Commercial senders in Germany use heatpacks equally to your usage quite successfully and without (severe) losses. But within Germany’s borders only. As you say: Sending fish across the European borders could be risky because of time. Mostly this needs three, four or more days (and nights). Especially during winter time this is not advisable. That’s a problem: At present, we have some six or eight breeders here in our country with many young fish of five or six species, but there are more interested friends outside of the country’s borders than inside…
Horst Linke told me of a new material better than styropor, but he obviously has not yet the details of the manufacturer. I think, shipping Paro’s is in Europe predominantly a matter of temperature. It’s no matter of space at all and nearly no matter of oxygen. But getting too cold could be desastruous. We had that problem here with our first sendings in October: An unprecedented sharp decline of temperature killed many fish. But even if you restrict yourself to the summer half of the year: A shipping that extends more than two or three days could always include a temperature-risk. The heatpacks could certainly minimize the problem, but their proper use needs experience.Christian, if it were as you argue, then there should be no more spec. Sentang in trade. But if I see it correctly, there are.
We have first to explain the masses of spec. Sentang that have been traded during the last years. Why so many? This form was the most-traded Parosphromenus in 2009, 2010 and 2011. An explanation maybe that all water bodies around in that region were “free for full exploitation”, maybe the vegetation was destroyed first and the catches became quite easy. This happens sometimes in Europe when there is a big building project and all fish or amphibia one could get on are fished or caught before the destruction is completed. But in this case the trading went on (or goes on?) for years. Therefore we have also to explain if this form is still in trade today. To me, it seems so. But how is that possible if all the habitats are destroyed already?Svein, certainly a valuable supplement.
I am always unsure when seeing these heatpacks. Could they become too hot? Will they loose their heating power too early? Will they get colder continously or at a certain point all of a sudden? I think it need not to fix a definite temperature if they keep things well between 17 and 27 degrees Celsius (better lower than hotter). We would need them especially in winter in oder to avoid the influence of the often freezy temperatures outside. But I am entirely unclear about how dependant they work from the outside temperatures. Of course, styropor boxes are used within cardbord boxes and we must observe that airflow could be passing nevertheless. But sometimes there are outside temperatures of – say – eight degrees Celsius on the positive scale, and sometimes there are eight degrees below the frost line. I cannot understand how the same heatpack could be able to equalize that difference. It seems to me to be a risky play and no secure way of measuring or dimensioning possible.
Or am I wrong?Great news again. They have tied themselves down, could be reminded if necessary.
Anyway, it will take some time. The German edition is announced for March/April; so the English version of the Paro-articles will appear …later. But they shall appear, and that’s good.I know of these rumours too. They were told for several times when an exciting species was new and expensive. Probably – the rumour said – the exporter or the breeder sells only one sex in order to prevent others to spoil his good business. This was told for instance with Dario-species and with Botia-species, but there was never a proof. I think it was nonsense, camouflaging the fact that one was unable at first to breed that new species. Certainly no export company takes measures to single out the sexes with Parosphromenus; they can be pretty sure that most licorice gouramis will be dead in the tanks of unexperienced aquarists in a few months time. This is quite in time before the new spawning and catching season begins, and they can sell all fish again.
One of the motives of the Parosphromenus-project is to change this mentality of mere “keeping” that fish. The most interesting thing with licorice is their behaviour and the most interesting behaviour is shown during courtship and breeding. We must learn to breed them, not only to keep them.
But I admit: for that purpose you need both sexes. The people who buyed that spec. Sentang-fish out of that tank I showed had no opportunity to breed them. They received only males. And why? I don’t know, but I suppose that the catch was like this. And why? I don’t know, but I suppose some kind of environmental change (perhaps by a chemical input, or merely a rise in temperatures following the cutting of high trees around), and the developing fry and growing young developed (nearly) into males only.
Or what other cause could reasonably be thought of?What is the difference to bintan?
If I knew I would tell you. Nobody knows exactly. Both forms are obviously closely related. They even maybe genetically identical. But we have no information on that so far.
P. bintan is a scientifically described species with a known sources of discovery. It was described by Kottelat in 1998 and two islands were given as source ot its natural distribution: Bintan and Bangka. So, Sumatra does not belong to that list, or better: It is not mentioned in the scientifical description. The spec. Sentang has first appeared named “sintangensis” in trade without a clear mention of a source in 2006 or 2007.The latinizied name sounded similar to a scientific description, but that was a fake by the trader; perhaps he was himself unclear about that or he thought of better deals. Nobody knows. Anyhow, the name was changed to spec. from Sentang (Sumatra), and it was clearer what the source was: an unknown place near the Sumatranian town of Sentang. That means: We must separate both, because it is wholly unclear what the exact relation of the two amounts to.
But: Anybody who knows both forms sees clearly the close relation. The spec. Sentang is identical with bintan or it is a close relative. If it is identical, then the list of the natural sources of bintan given in the scientific description of Kottelat’s is incomplete (this is well possible, I should say: it is highly probable). If it is not identical, it most certainly is at least closely related.
The case cannot be solved before we have genetic data. Presently we must separate the two and say, that spec. Sentang is a bintan-like form stemming from Sumatra, and it is to be distinguished by a slight differention in the colouring of the male: it is slightly less markedly coloured, with often a little greenish tinge in the fins. It should not be kept together with bintan in one tank, for it is – to say the least – definitely stemming from a differnet place far away from Bintan and Bangka, therefore at least a local variant of bintan but possibly even a different species. It is probable however that both forms could be crossed, but we may not have any interest in mixing the forms until we don’t know of their status. We should not produce mingles of different species if we have no knowledge on this matter.
It’s P. spec. Sentang from Sumatra. This has been the worldwide most traded form in the past years. Often it is called P. spec. bintan, for it is certainly closely related (if not identical) with P. bintan.
Therefore we can say: The Parosphromenus in aquaria that are most widely distributed do not clearly belong to one of the eighteen species scientifically hintherto described, but to two of the hitherto undescribed forms, namely “spec. “blue line” and spec. Sentang. It’s ridiculuous, isn’t it? But it’s the truth, because the great majority of licorice gouramis in the aquarium are not self-caught fish or fish stemming as offspring from such fish with a definitely know place where they were caught, but from trade. And the forms that are traded mostly are the both I mentioned.(I removed the picture formerly at this place because it is not necessary for answering the question of Hendrik’s. But it is interesting in itself for all: Therefore I show it at a better place: in the picture’s section).
After reading this I just phoned Horst Linke asking him whether he could influence his good friend Pat, but he said: no, he is as he is.
So let us hope that things will develop to the better.[quote=”Jit” post=703]Hi there Peter, I wonder if you have managed to get an update on the location of P. tweediei from Christian Hinz. (…) Nature has a way of recovering if left well alone. (…) Najib has his hands on a pair, which seem to be showing signs of spawning. C.way has his hands full at the moment, having finished his studies and is now hunting for a job. 🙂 anyone has a stay-at-home job for our young paros expert? :)[/quote]
Hello Jit, some remarkable informations you gave. First: No, I am afraid, I haven’t got news from Christian Hinz on that matter, but I told him that you have asked and it is possible that we hear from him. Anyway, he will probably visit the sites together with a friends this year again. Second: Really a true sentence! “Nature, if left well alone, has a way of recovering.” I this is the case (to a certain degree) even at a place where the primeval forest was cleared before, then we might be quite confident. I take you to mean the fish only. Otherwise the recovery hardly could be comprehensive. But if the fish manage to survive: it’s a good beginning. And third: I shall keep my fingers crossed!
Big Tom, it’s a fine thing that you let us participate in your thoughts, accompanied by those jungle-like pictures. I am well on your side when you oppose your way of keeping a beautiful aquarium to the usual high-tech type, and I can understand very well the problem of bringing the needs of the plants into a balance with the needs of the fish. In standard aquaria this is much less a problem because you are using tap water with a higher degree of solved minerals and a pH not necessarily as low as it is needed for Parosphromenus. You can use stronger lighting and feed the plants with special nutrients. All that is nearly forbidden if keeping (and perhaps) breeding black-water fish properly, since the activity of the plants would be much too high and the water conditions would become rather instabile. So your tank is not only aesthetically wonderful but also a valuable test type of a low tech tank for fish which cannot stand the usual high tech conditions. But is nevertheless a dream landscape of an underwater jungle.
We wait and see in which direction it will develop. And it’s a good idea to establish some small tanks additionally for breeding that fish. One could not exclude the possibility of one or another young that survives in that big tank, if the water is not too hard. The eggs of the Parosphromenus are very delicate and don’t stand an osmotic pressure that is too high for them. But maybe the water values are just at the border of acceptability, and then there might be some suprises nevertheless.The of editor of AMAZONAS has replied to me already. He wrote (I translate):
“Dear Mr. Finke, since January 2012 AMAZONAS will be published in the English language, too. However, it is an edition under license. The plan is to translate the German edition and publish it two or four months later. And the american publisher decides in accordance with an editorial board which articles will be included in it. Since there are many former editions there is a rich variety of marketable themes to be selected from for the first issues. I doubt that the small licorice will be part of that. The US-colleague knows very well that many Asians are interested in Asian fish but in America the main interests are different, as you know. I try to influence it, but the Americans take their own condiderations. If this would be the only criterion, they would print on cichlids only, all the time chichlids. And catfish. I am sorry …”
(In German: Wir haben die AMAZONAS seit Januar 2012 in englischer Sprache vorliegen. Allerdings handelt es sich um eine Lizenzausgabe. Geplant ist, die deutsche Fassung ins Englische zu übersetzen und zwei oder vier Monate später zu bringen. Allerdings entscheidet der amerikanische Verleger darüber – in Absprache mit dessen Board – welche Beiträge hineinkommen. Da wir eine große Auswahl früherer Hefte haben, ist der vor allem in den ersten Ausgaben natürlich bemüht, gut verkäufliche Themen zu bringen. Ob die kleinen Luftschnapper dazu gehören, wage ich zu bezweifeln. Aber das liegt nicht in meiner Entscheidung. Der Kollege in USA weiß, dass viele Asiaten sehr interessiert sind an asiatischen Fischen, aber ein US-Amerikaner geht nach anderen Kriterien, wie Sie ja wissen.Ich versuche zu beeinflussen, aber die Amis haben ihren eigenen Kopf. Wenn es danach ginge, nur Cichliden, Cichliden, nochmals Cichliden und Welse, leider…).
Now Peter speaking again: You American friends of Parosphromenus must become active! Speak to the American editor. Mention the foundation of ALFA. Certainly, there are some communicative channels to influence the editing strategy to a certain extent. And tell them it’s more than keeping fish, it’s sustainment problems in Asia, too.
No, I am sorry, upt to now I have no information on an English-language edition of the articles I mentioned in that posting. I shall ask the editor H.-G. Evers.
But I should give you a further information: Martin Hallmann and I have written the first book ever on Parosphromenus. It will be rather comprehensive (dealing not only with the aquaristic problems in detail, but also with nature and the destruction of the habitats first, all species and many theoretical and practical questions). My parts are ready since long, Martin’s will be in March. But: It’s in German.
Up to now we have only a contract with a German publisher (the same who is editing “Amazonas”). But it would be fine if there could be found a perspective for an English translation and a publisher for that. The publisher of the German edition will surely appreciate suggestions.I was asked by the editor to organize articles for an “Amazonas”-special on Parosphromenus, and I agreed. This happened last year. Now, the next issue is it, appearing in March. It will contain articles by Martin Hallmann (on the structure of the licorice group and on behaviour), by Horst Linke (on the habitats of that fish on Bangka, in Malaysia and Indonesia), by Günter Kopic (on his methods of breeding that fish), and by myself (on the Parosphromenus-Project and its global structure). In addition, there will be some short informations on important special points.
I think, it will become quite a nice collection. The language is German, however.[quote=”humike7″ post=664]I would really love to see a section of some inspirational tanks and methods that people use. Maybe small feature articles. I have mentioned before that Big Tom’s bucket o’ mud is something that drew me here and has lead me down all sorts of interesting avenues.[/quote]
There are quite a few interesting tanks pictured here in the forum, but at different places. Have a look in the four “Pictures”-categories in the four forums Asian, American, European and Global. These are designed to show all of us impressive examples of tanks and settings that are specialized or at least conveniant for licorice gouramis.
But I admit: There could be more! Please, friends of the genus, show us your tanks, racks and settings! We all love to look at other aquaria. One needs not always to see the fish pictured very big. Its the general setting and decoration, the caves, plants and wood that make things interesting for other viewers.
And there is one kind of pictures especially rare, of course: Tanks (or parts of tanks) with licorice gouramis visible in it. Many of Helene’s photos are of that kind. But we can have much more of those.
