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Thanks a lot Gerald for placing that peaceful community-clip here. The “blue line”-male still looks a little faint and not yet ready for display. At any rate you should shoot another clip when it does. It’ s surely only a couple of days.
But this already this gives an impression of a very suitable small fish- community. The cave has been detected already.I just returned from the Czech republic and completely agree with Helene’s opinion. The Chechs are exzellent breeders of “difficult” species. The opinion cited “that they massacre those fish” is definitely nonsense. There are stupid or greedy people everywhere, but many Chechs have rightly a good name in the Fish breeding business.
Apparently Ichthyophthirius, as you presumed. I can give you no other advice than to use a normal medicine and treatment offered for that disease. I have no experience how it works with Parosphromenus since I have not experienced this disease with these fish. Good luck! Don’t rise the temperature above 30 degrees Celsius.
Sure it’s Ichthyophthirius? Or is it Oodinium? The former is very rare with Licorice Gouramis, the latter frequent. Relative big white spots or very fine white “powder”?
And do you keep other fish in the same tank? One of those big tanks you wrote of?1. Crossbreeding in Parosphromenus is generally possible since the genetic interrelations between the “species” are widely unknown.
2. Many forms are probably related on a subspecies- or semispecies-level, and here crossbreeding is highly probable. In nature, this is mainly prevented by exclusive ocurrence.
3. In aquaria, it is generally recommended to keep different “species” apart, especially since the distinction of females is often nearly impossible (at least for the aquarist).
4. The differentiation between the “species” is often executed rather carelessly, especially in the international trade and additionally in cases of hitherto undescribed forms. It is highly probable that there are some (or even many) crossbred fish existing in our aquarium stock.
5. But: There are clear cases of species differentiation, especially when structural properties are clearly to be identified in both sexes, one is between the two you mentioned: anjunganensis and deissneri. Both are easily to be identified.
6. The problem is with the latter. I doubt that the fish you are offered as to be “deissneri” really is deissneri. (Look for the description of this species in our species accounts to know why). Most fish offered in the trade under this name are misidentified. Therefore, the fish offerd to you is probably equally a round-tailed form of the harveyi-bintan-group. If it were real deissnerithat is endemic from Bangka, it would be clearly discernible by man (and fish) from anjunganensis at the first sight. But since it is probably a different form, it may be not.
7. Since anjunganensis is not belongig to the narrower harveyi-bintan-group, crossbreeding is not as probable as in other cases. But think of the unnatural closeness of the aquarium-situation; I would give no guarantee.
8.Conclusion: If the fish you are offered would be really anjunganensis and really deissneri, in a tank big enough would be hardly a risk of crossbreeding. But since the latter is probably a different form, there is. I should not keep them together.
9. It is generally very important to take this problem seriously. As long as we have no clear genetic data, we should be very careful with mixing different forms, even the same form from differnet locations.Anthony, this is quite an impressive list! It’s rather similar to the lists of fish that are available in Europe, only parvulus is seldom sold here although the fish has the widest distribution of any Parosphromenuswe know. In nature, it is very frequent indeed. But it is too small and too difficult for the average aquarist. Nevertheless, for the specialist the display dance of a full-coloured male is spectacular.
The “deissneri” that you posted a photograph of is hardly to determine since it may be a female of a round-tail Parosphromenus-species. It is very likely not true deissneri as it is not in 95% of all fish named like this in Europe. At any rate it is remarkable that it is not confused with sp. blue line or sp. Sentang (“sintangensis”), as it is often in our country.
Did you order and sell any from this list? A rather well-known species which is missing in it although sometimes sold in Germany is nagyi.Dear Jacob, I don’t know who else could possibly help, but I was entirely unable to conclude from your rather general descriptions what special disease is involved in that case (and you asked for a special diagnosis and medicine). Therefore I would have suggested a rather traditional way of treatment: normal salt from the kitchen and a moderate rise of temperature (about three degrees F. higher than normal). I wouldn’t have used such a parasite treatment with several ingrediants since it is rather heavy a weapon that could kill the fish. So, good luck.
Scratching certainly indicates stress and not necessarily a disease. But in case of Oodinium, it is usually the first symptom to be observed, long before you see any sign of that fine “white powder” on the fish’s skin.
I am not surprised that you did not find the medicine I mentioned. In Germany, it is very difficult to buy it. But there are some brands of fish-medicine which consist of that stuff entirely. One is “Hexa-Ex” by TETRA, another “Spirohexol” by JBL. In the description Oodinium is not mentioned at all, but we Parosphromenus-friends have a lot of experience with it as the best means against that disease.Your question cannot be answered with certainty. There could be different causes and consequences. Let me tell you one that is likely.
The scratching could well be caused by Oodinium. Then, all fish are highly dangered. For a success by separation it is probably too late.
A very effective medicine is called “2-amino-5-nitrothiazole”. It is widely used by veterinary doctors as a desinfection means. A yellow powder. It must be stored in the refrigirator, otherwise it will turn brown in some months and get useless.It is wrong to say “decay is dangerous”, but it is right to say “decay could be dangerous”.
I cannot comment on Helene’s problem; I don’t know what the cause of the black zones in the bodies of her fish are. But too much decay of rotting organic material can lead to such phenomena.
And certainly it can lead to severe hygienic problems.
This is one of the problems of blackwater aquaria, especially if they are small: You have to use much organic material (wood, leaves) which will not stay stable but undergo a process of continuing decay. Therefore, one has sharply to distinguish between fresh organic material and decaying organic material. And you have to consider the volume of a tank. The smaller your tanks are, it is certainly the more important to consider that problem.
If you begin a new small Parosphromenus-tank with leaves and wood, you should take fresh dead leaves and not too old wood. For instance, I take one sea-almond-tree leave and a handful of beech-leaves and some dead wood from a pet bog in a fresh set-up 10-liter-tank. This will have a good influence on it’s hygienic status for about at least four, maybe eight weeks. The sea-almond-tree-leaves are the first to rot, and then the positive influence turns into a negative. If it becomes smeary and greasy (and it will after some time), you should take it out and put a fresh in instead. The same happens with the beech leaves, but their decay takes more time, maybe months. Finally they have to be changed for new, too. It is very difficult to assess the decaying rate of wood, since there are very different forms and states of wood. Fresh dead wood from a peat bog is best, it will help you to create a stable blackwater milieu for months, maybe a year or even two. But the time will come when you have to throw it out and take a new one.
I admit that often I do not act in accordance with those rules. I had never that black spot problems, but I often had other problems (mostly fish disease, e.g. Oodinium and algae), telling me that some of my organic material has become too old and is rotting in a too-small tank. Then it is high time for a change.
Therefore, because we work with materials that are not normed but of very different natural origin, it is impossible to give a clear rule by quantitative measures. But one has certainly to consider the qualitative relations. Every dead organic material rots, but in different amounts of time. And all rotting is a load for a (small) tank. The beginning of that rotting process will have a positive influence on the blackwater milieu. But one has to learn when the point of a turnover has come; and act.There are several possibilities. You did not mention one: simply leave all as it is.
But it depends on the inner structure of your breeding tank whether this is a path to be followed. If it is well structured (by plants, wood, leaves or peat fibres on the bottom) and not put up only a few days ago I should change nothing. The backgroud is: if licorice gouramis find suitable conditions they will breed many times in short series. What you tell us could indicate that. Then probably young fish (not necessarily all) will survive (first in the bottom structures, later more below the surface). I needs time to find them (mostly about a fortnight). I you give some small portions of rotifiers or Paramecia or small Artemia they will find some food. The risk is that the old may take their young as food, but often this is not the case. The risk is low because they will breed next time within a few days (give good food as Culex or Moina or even fresh Artemia especially for the female). Then, at the second or third occasion – if you have seen them feeding on their larvae before – you could prefer a different method.
But this (leave the young with the parent-fish) surely works only if it is a well-structured tank. If it is a rather “naked” tank then you should catch the young out.
At any rate you should wait until the young are blackish and swim short distances within the cave. Then you could take a small tube and suck the content in a small tank. If your breeding tank is big enough you could place the small tank in it. A good method is to take a round glass of about two liters, placed separately, stir the water once a day, suck the debris from the middle of the bottom and replace with fresh water.
I should not catch the parents out of the breeding tank, for the reasons you described yourself.
But note: If you try to raise the young separately, you have to put full attention on feeding and hygienic conditions. This is much easier if you try raising some young within the breeding tank. Probably, you will loose some fry by this “natural” method, but for a beginner it’s easier. And with a later clutch you can use a different method, if necessary or in order to learn.The interesting image 4930 (uploaded by rhhansen) displays a Rasbora-like fish with a general coloration somewhat similar to licorice gouramis. I don’t know that fish. Who could tell what it is? (Rasmus?)
Where is it living? Is it wild caught or not? Was it bought in trade or is it offspring of other individuals?
And why did you put the photograph here? The puzzling coloration could be sufficient a reason, of course.Hugues, your message on your feeding practice is very useful indeed. And I agree that Tubifexcould be fed on Paros if thoroughly cleaned as you do it. Horst Linke does it with great success. The only thing is that one has to pay attention not to overfeed those delicate fish with that heavy, nutritious food.
By the way: Thanks a lot, Hugues! I am very grateful to you! You have done a great translation-work in the last weeks and months! The French version of our website has made a very big leap ahead! Let’s hope that many French aquarists will have a look and begin to interest themselves for these beautiful small fish!Thank you, Bernd, for clarifying that issue. I was skeptical because in your first message your method was not quite clear. Now it is. And it is an interesting variant. The point is that transferring the cave with larvae inside must be done as late as possible, i.e. only shortly before the young fish swim out. Of course, it must be certain that the water conditions are strictly identical in the two tanks.
As an information to others: Bernd Bussler is one of our best and most experienced breeders of Parosphromenus in Germany. He has bred nearly all species with continuous success. Therefore, his method surely is worthwhile to be followed by people who want to breed bigger numbers of young fish than are to be expected when left in their parent’s home tank.Bernd, das musst Du nochmal erläutern (You must explain that once more):
1. Mit “Laichröhren” meinst Du die Laichhöhlen? (Do you mean the “caves”?)
2. Nimmst Du Höhlen mit Gelege (oder mit Larven) heraus (ohne das pflegende Männchen) und gibst sie in ein separates Aquarium? Das kann kaum gut gehen! (Do you put caves with eggs/and/or larvae and without the caring male (?) in a new tank? I don’t think that will work!)
