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Jacob, it certainly is a good thing to reflect as you do on establishing a blackwater aquarium, since that’s a pretentious type of tank. But I think there are limits to the planning of a system on the theoretical level; only in practice you will finally see if it works. I think it could, with one exception: your idea of “heavy planting”. You can manage an aquarium with less special water conditions very well by using the hygienic powers of many thriving plants, but in a blackwater system you will not be successful. There are two reasons for it: first, most plants do not stand very low pH-values and very low conductivity values. Second, they need nutrients. But their constant input and the biological activity of the plants will force those values up and down and everything becomes instable. More important than the absolute value is stability of the milieu. Well growing plants constantly influence the water conditons and it is very difficult to master that. If not impossible. In a “normal aquarium” you can manage that because the fish are not as delicate and the water values allow more swing. But in a blackwater system it becomes very difficult to integrate the interests of fish and plants. One has to accept that there are structural limits of aquaria in comparison to the natural biotopes of licorice or chocolate gouramis.
Instead of thinking of ever more complicated technical solutions you should try things out practically. It is easier than you think now to organize a rather stable blackwater aquarium. I have many small tanks (12 liter, 25 liter) with mostly only Vesicularia and Ceratopteris, an almond leaf at the back, old wood from peat bogs and some oak- or beech leaves at the bottom, and with water with pH between 3.5 and 6.5. and 20 to 80 Mikrosiemens/cm, and there are licorice gouramis thriving and propagating. There is no filter at all, but I change some water every two weeks. This is rather simple a system, and conditions are stable. For chocolates you need the tanks a little bigger, OK, and that will work. A little water flow is very good, but that’s all.Here some details regarding linkei and parvulus.
Horst Linke just reported to me that -among others – he found both species that he searched for. As linkei is concerned he confirmed my supposition that the undescribed spec. Seruyan probably is only a local form of that species (cf. our species account “linkei“). As parvulus is concerned he confirms our rather new knowledge of a very widespread distribution of that species, much more widespread that assumed by the first encounters with it last century. It is still present in a large range of wetlands around Palangkaraya, still in 200 km distance to the town. In the light of that evidence it is questionable if the distinctions of different local forms (like “Babugus” or “Tangkiling” that he and we talked about formerly, cf. our species account “parvulus“) is still to be valid, since the species is present nearly continously. We are not sure about this, however; there are for instance some big rivers separating parts of that region, and it remains to be investigated whether they function as separating the parts or rather as connecting them.
Drosophila, as useful they are for surface-feeding fish, are useless for Parosphromenus. In nature they normally don’t feed from the water surface. In our tanks it might happen sometimes because the tank-height is much lower than their ecological niche is in nature: their activity extends more in the depth than to the surface (see their colours, see their normal neglect of their labyrinth). They are often caught in depths of more than 1 meter. So they might catch the one or other fly in our tanks, but it does not fit in their behavioural scheme.
Jacob, I like your attitude very much! You are a fighter for better aquaristic manners and you have a deep trust in the power of knowledge and reason. Maybe, some thoughts of yours are too optimistic and some others are not as realistic as they ought to be, but you don’t give up.
I think that the future of the hobby needs people like you are. So, go on!O, that’s a pity Merck doesn’t sell that germ-test any more. But there was another, similar test by another company; I’ll try to get the details.
The Hanna-instrument is high quality; I have it myself. But in order to measure the right pH-value it’s up to you to calibrate it from time to time (and you need the calibration-fluid that is sold by Hanna for that purpose). The you will receive very exact data. You must also take care for the sensitive electrode which does not like to be stored dry; they sell a storage fluid for that purpose. But any water is better than air.
Then your setting is quite good. I don’t think you really need the UV-equipment; I should omit that. You must always realize that there are “bad” and “good” bacteria. With that UV-filterung you cannot distinguish between the two groups; you kill them all. And that’s in most cases of no use, but the contrary. UV-filtering is the last escape only from very dangerous infections, nothing for permanent use in an aquarium. Even not a blackwater aquarium.
But since we are here a site especially for Parosphromenus and chocolate gouramis mostly co-exist in the same habitats as they do, we do not speak here of special measures for chocolate tanks, but for well-planned, well-cared tanks for small blackwater-fish. Therefore this issue was and is quite adequate in this frame-setting, for it is on good living conditions for Parosphromenus, too. The only major difference I see is that chocolates do not as well in very small tanks that suffice for the licorice.Marcin, the shyness that you reported for your sumatranus is experienced by nearly all who had this species. It’s a strange fact but it seems a general feature of these fish; I cannot explain it.
But with reference to your last posting: You must have got the so-called “deissneri” meanwhile. I doubt it’s really deissneri. But what is it?
The conditions you offer to the fish and your practice are rather perfect; the conductivity maybe a bit high for the development of eggs. Using tannine is certainly an interesting alternative. I did it in former times too; one only has to be carefull not to use too much of the material.„Idle thoughts“ or „ideal thoughts“? Jacob: Sometimes it seems to me that you are searching for the ideal setting, the ultimate aquarium for blackwater fish, simple on the one hand and perfect on the other, a model of functionality and ease at the same time … O yes, it’s worthwhile to dream of that, I did also. If it were not blackwater aquaristics, but the normal tank for neon tetras or barbs, not for breeding but only for keeping for pleasure until the fish die: then the dream has come (nearly) true meanwhile. The industry has developed some technical models of comfort and convenience, and for most aquarists this is the solution they like. But not for us, not for you, not for me, not for the chocolate and the licorice gouramis.
By the way: Here, at our new Parosphromenus-site, it’s not necessary to distinguish very cleanly between both groups, since the chocolates are blackwater fish as the licorice; in fact both are companions in many blackwater streams and rivers. There are differences, of course, in behaviour and in care, but the issues you spoke of are as much relevant for the one as for the other. We, the makers of this site, are very conscious about the fact that we designed a very special site, but in most respects it nevertheless proves true for all organisms that accompany those fish in nature: They are all more or less doomed to extinction. Maybe the chocolates a little lesser than the Paros, because there are less species and their occurrence is more widespread. It’s just as with the Orang-Utan: We selected a symbol for the vanishing beauties of the east-asian biodiversity.
Now quickly three things:
1. An inevitable equipment you need is reliable measuring kits for pH and conductivity, possibly for germs, too. All “stripes” are too inaccurate, liquids are more exact. The relevant domain is pH 3.0 to 7.0 and conductivity below the normal range of measuring kits for water hardness. But the best are electrical instruments for both, gauged and calibrated exactly, however; otherwise it’s of no use. You should begin with an electrical pH-meter. I think you will need it.
2. Yes, zeolithe is an interesting substance, no question. Since 2004, we have an interesting product based on zeolithe in Europe called “Easy life”; it will be sold in the U.S. also, I suppose. Whereas you can forget all those “water purifying” substances and all those products that “make water tropical” that are sold in every pet shop today (at least for our blackwater aims), that “easy life” is different. We have a very successful breeder of Parosphromenus in The Netherlands, Karen Koomans, who has not changed her water very often and she is certain that her successes are largely based on her regular use of that product. On the other hand, many of us do not use it (I very rarely) and we breed our fish nevertheless. Anyway: “Easy life” may help; it will not replace water change. My demineralization system working with artificial resins is comfortable and for me the base of my blackwater aquaria.
3. One of the best Betta- and Parosphromenus-breeders, Allan Brown, was always characterized by his wife Barbara as “water changer”. I think, this will stay the best method (only of course, if your new water is better than your old! There are cases where the constant water change is ridiculous because the water in a big normal tank with many plants and little fish is often better than the new water from the tap. But our blackwater problem is different). So I think there are limits to our dreams of an easy going, comfortable blackwater aquarium. As there are distinctions between the ever running waters of our fish in south-east Asia and the never running waters in our tanks. Nevertheless, it is fully correct to orientate on them. Their conditions are what we have to copy as good as possible. But there are many limits to that, unfortunately. On the other hand: The system we reccommend here is rather easy and rather comfortable compared to the everlasting technical and chemical stress that you have with a normal aquarium with tap water, dried foods and an evergrowing demand (or pretended demand) of industrial products.In the light of that insufficiencies we could only be surprised about the fact that healthy Paros and Chocos will nevertheless live for years and propagate. So let’s speak on the Parosphromenus-site of Parosphromenus, having many Bettas and Sphaerichtys in mind.
The first thing I want to say is a big praise for Kevin that he started this thread on the feeding-question. Feeding is, alongside with water, one of the two clues for successfull Parosphromenus-aquaristics.
Then I should like to add three remarks:
1. As has been said before frozen food is possible but not recommendable. The reasons have been named already. Ease and comfort have limits with these fish, and that’s one of the reasons why caring for them and their offspring is and will be a pretentious form of the hobby. But there is a good level of ease to be possible: that’s food cultures. The same refusal (as I am concerned) holds for Tubifex and bloodworms that live in waters loaden with debris; for me, they will be nearly never safe enough to be given to rare and endangered fish that live in floating fresh water habitats. (I know very well that some friends don’t care for that rejection.)
2. Variation in food is always a good maxime, not only with man, but also with fish. Nevertheless I admit, in winter I am largely dependent on Artemia and Moina. But it is always interesting to see in spring when there are again Culex and other small larvae to be caught, that my licorice gouramis begin displaying and breeding again. A good friend of mine does not believe in that “variation-doctrine”. He says: “The necessary nutrients must be guaranteed, that’s all.” But I don’t think so, seeing my winter-nagyi chasing the first Culex-larvae.
3. A symbiotic aquarium of licorice gouramis and shrimps is a fascinating idea, since several sorts of shrimp must be the most eaten food by them in nature. (But we most certainly do not have those species at hand; I do not know why. The optimum of the many shrimps cared for in those “Nano-aquaria” is not the low pH and the very low conductivity of the water environment of Parosphromenus-fish).
In our tanks many things differ from nature. At one time the shrimps control the licorice’s offspring, at the other it is vice versa. I don’t think that one could realize the dream of a balanced tank with both, simplyfying our feeding-duties to a minimum. If there are enough shrimps to feed them to the fish, it’s OK; but I should never let the shrimps interfere with the wish to rise the offspring of them.
Anyhow, I think this issue is not fully understood presently.[quote=”Jacob” post=161](…) I’m ignorant of biology, I’m not ignorant of the seeming inevitability of failure with chocolate gouramis. And that is the last I’ll say about chocolate gouramis, this isn’t the place for it.[/quote]
Dear Jacob, you asked a lot of very important questions, and the chocolate-gourami-thing is relevant for the Parosphromenus-friends, too. So, I am very gratful to you for your serious and demanding search for answers and your endeavour for a pretentious way of setting up and caring for an aquarium. It very near to many of my problems.
So let’s get back to the licorice gouramis, together, I hope. But we take your very interesting and scrupulous way of questioning as a motive to think about the question, how and where to offer a place for discussions like this, which enrich our Parosphromenus-forum but don’t break it’s boarderlines?! Surely, there are many questions transcending them, and we like to attract them and not to exclude them.
But I have another request: You have written some things from the American perspective (shops, habits, fish, methods and so on). At least it looks like this from a European perspective. Please, write something in our “American”-section about all that. It will be read all over the world! And we must try to develop the American-Parosphromenus- and blackwater-scene! Your questions and perspevtives on blackwater-aquaristics are very appropriate for pushing things further and make people thinking about all that![quote=”Jacob” post=144]forgot this-
5. In a larger tank like I am setting up, would it be good to introduce as many small live organisms that will live among the leaves as possible? (…) [/quote]
Indeed, as you say yourself: “who knows …”. Certainly not “introduce as many small live organisms that will live among the leaves as possible”, if you want young fish survive. But introduce some that could possibly propagate and serve as food for the baby fish. But that’s one reason why keeping Parosphromenus in a larger tank is not a thing for beginners but the advanced: You don’t have things as much under control in a larger tank than in a lesser large. I always recommend to beginners in Parosphromenus-aquaristics the lesser. When they have enough young produced themselves, they might try the large adventure.For a scientist, Jacob, it’s quite normal that every answer leads to new questions. That’s completely right.
1. Even such commercial products must make use of suppliers, and peat is never the same. We know of peat that leads to a rise of hardness. So I can only give the advice to test it. But since the main effect for Parosphromenus-aquaristics is the lowering of the pH, you can try out pH-lowering acids with very often a good success. I have often used the product by Sera for this aim. Certainly, with good acid peat you introduce further humine substances which are of good use. But you can have succes with acids, too.
2. I should not use that old sponge again. Wash it completely before. Bacteria need to grow accustomed to the environment, and if the water etc. conditions before were different, the result may be contraproductive, in that they die first, possibly. Therefore have a new start of that sponge filter. I use no filter at all and mostly everything does well.
3. It’s a good idea to keep a group of Parosphromenusof the same species in a larger tank to study their behaviour. But for a beginner I think it is better to keep two pairs each separately in a small tank and breed them first, because it’s difficult to manage the feeding of the young in a tank too big. Mostly fish that are not engaged in own breeding activities tend to feed on the young of others. On the other hand: some will perhaps survive if you feed brine shrimp regularly and give Parameciumor (better) rotifiers the first week after swimming out. But to find them in a bg tank is … not easy. Anyhow: For a somewhat experienced breeder your plan is charming.
4. The kit I used lately and found very useful is called “Cult-Dip-combi” and is manufactured by the famous international chemistry company ERNST MERCK in D-64271 Darmstadt (Germany). The reference number in Merck’s list is 1.00778.0001. It contains ten kits for ten tests. Look at Merck’s site in the internet and find out how to order it. Normally it is not sold in aquarium shops. Most aquarists don’t need that. They open the tap for their Platys, and that’s it.But let me say a general thing: This all sounds rather complicated. If you manage to get hold of some healthy Parosphromenus-fish, if you use pure c.o-water or pure rain-water, if you present them their caves, make the light not too bright, shadowed by water sprite etc., if you feed them now in summer with Culex larvae, glassworms, small Daphnia, brine shrimp, Moina (or only two of all that): You will have success. Those fish are not as delicate as all this seems to indicate. I think, you will do that quite right, even without your fine filtering system and without daily controls of the water. But you should be equipped for that.
Jacob, I saw your last mailing just after having finished my reply to the former. You think in the right directions, certainly. But there is no germ-free aquarium. Tests say that the tank with the least germs contain more germs than any blackwater in nature! Your arrangement with peat filtering and almond leaves is a quite good one, but in cannot exclude the germs fully. In fact, there are certainly rather many of them.
So, as I recommended at another place, buy one of those measuring kits for germs. Then you will see.
But don’t resign: If one is conscious about that problem, one has done a big step from “normal aquaristics” to advanced Parosphromenus-aquaristics. Healthy adultParosphromenuscan stand by far more germs than they experience in nature. But adult only! Our aim is always to breed them. The problem are the eggs and the very young fish. Especially the eggs. They are very sensitive to too many germs. But again, don’t be disappointed. The harder species (as filamentosus, linkei, paludicola, even nagy)will happily rise their eggs and young if you pay a little attention to that question. The pH is the most obvious means to do that. And there you are on the right track, with peat filtering and almond leaves. And regular water change, of course. But once you have got the right turn, even the water change could be reduced (not to nil!).Jacob, generally speaking you are right that chocolate gouramis and licorice gouramis have the same needs for their environment. I have seen tanks successfully keeping both gouramis together (but not their offspring, and that’s a pity). Your idea with the peat filter is a good idea, but take care to select the right peat; there are quite different qualities. Some are rather useless since they are pH-active to a too-low extent only. Some are dangerous because they are mixed with nutrition materials for gardening. Ask the dealer; that must not be the case! And have a test before: there must be a clear reduction of pH if you test with very soft water. (Hard water will be reduced in hardness a bit, but the important effect on pH is only a low one.So,only very soft water is reasonable). Therfore the reason for using such a peat filter system is to reduce the pH considerably in order to reduce the load with germs.
I cannot tell you in detail about Sphaerichthys; yes, they can be rather aggressive but that mus not be the case. But anyway, here is the issue Parosphromenus and they certainly will have a profit from your peat filter arrangement. Parosphromenushowever are mostly less delicate and sensitive to disease than Sphaerichthys are. Their sensitivity to diseases are well-known.
But you must obey three things:
1. generally use the softest water you can provide; nearly no hardness should be measured: “a water near to destilled water”.
2. you must change the peat regularly when the pH begins to rise considerably (so you have to control it). But beware: if you have that extremely soft water and very pH-active peat you need little amounts of peat, regularly changed however.
3. you should try to create stability. It does not suit the fish, neither Parospromenusnor Sphaerichthys, if there are rapidly changing conditions. If you have the right conditions and not many very active sumerged plants, then sometimes a permanent filtering with fresh peat is not necessary.But that you must try out.
By the way: There a measuring kits for measuring the germ content of aquarium water. These are very useful for the friends of blackwater fish, indeed.Jacob, I generally comply with you. Parosphromenus are quite stable and less delicate if kept in a sound and rather stable environment. To my experience, the pH-issue is overstimated if taken as that value itself. Even Parosphromenus do not “need” very low pH, even their eggs do not. There are many reports of successful breeding with a pH around 6.5 (but always below 7!). The thing is not the pH, but the low density of germs and harmful bacteria. The pH, in combination with humid substances, is an important means for regulating that content. The lower the pH, the lower the concentration of germs (as a rule, at least generally speaking).
I cannot tell you generally “safe levels of change” in the aquarium, as you asked for. This is too wide a question. “Create an environment as stable as possible with the least possible concentration of germs”: that would be my recommendation. Not the one or other fix value, with one exception: the water should contain little salts (= a low value of Mikrosiemens/cm). Otherwise the tender eggs and the very young fish of our genus cannot stand the osmotic pressure. Adult fish are more resistant, but they are also adapted to very soft water.Reply to Martin:
Martin, you asked for the changes in temperature that you could impute to the licorice gouramis. I do not know exactly, but I should be careful. My tanks without electric heater are placed in rooms with rather stable temperatures between 19 and 25 degrees Celsius. They are heated in winter, and in summer the hottest temperatures outside the house do not affect the room temperature very much; in any case it’s always below 30 degrees. And experience shows that to be an important maximum boarderline; Parosphromenusdon’t stand higher temperatures for long.
It’s much more difficult to give the low boarderline. As you see, I make no experiments with lower temperatures than 19 degrees Celsius. But we often send Parosphromenus-fish with a post-parcel. There are sometimes problems at times with high temperatures (above 30 degrees, as I mentioned above), but only seldom the opposite. Of course, if it’s freezing outside, you have to take measures by a good packing and use heatings packs, and generally we tend to avoid such periods for sending. But often the parcel arrives (mostly after one or two nights of travel) with water cooled to 16 or 17 degrees Celsius, and the fish are quiet but obviously healthy. Those low temperatures are certainly too low for keeping the fish in the aquarium, but if they are healthy they stand them if necessary.
Mostly, my tanks have 22 – 24 degrees Celsius. “Lower is better than hotter” seems to be a good rule.
I don’t think there are important differences between the species. Parosphromenus is rather homogeneous a genus; that is valid for their demands with temperatures, too.
