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Reply to Jacob:
Jacob, you asked for the plants I use in my small tanks. I could take that as a difficult or as an easy question. It’s difficult if taken generally: How to combine plant growth and stable healthy conditions for licorice gouramis in small tanks without a permament water flow? We must discuss that, without doubt. But here, I shall take it as an easy question, simply asking for the plants I use.
Mostly Vesicularia submerged and Ceratopteris at the water surface, as we said already. It’s a problem with submerged plants to stand the low light, the low pH and the low contents of dissolved nutrients. Therefore I use other plants only a few here and then: a small piece of a Ludwigia palustris or repens, a small piece of Potamogeton gayi, here and there a small Cryptocoryne, different species, in a small pot. For I have only a very thin layer of brown or black gravels at the bottom of my tanks (much less than 1 cm), thought as a settling ground for bacteria; it’s too thin for most plant roots. Only recently I found that a very tender Utricularia, perhaps gibba, is doing quite well in these conditions, building nests of tender growth. Often, it grows on the surface, too, building thicker layers there. So we arrive at the floating plants. Ceratopteris thalictroides is best, but there are Salvinia auriculata, some small pads of Riccia fluitans which tend to become fragile and loose there, or the unavoidable Lemna spec..
So you see: I avoid rooted plants which need to be planted in a thick layer on the bottom, although I love them and let them grow in some other, bigger tanks with other fish. But I know: There are people successfully growing and breeding Parosphromenus in such tanks, too. I think, that the most important thing is – besides the low content of dissolved salts and nutrients in the water that you need for the survival of the eggs of the licorice gouramis – not the low pH as such, but the avoidance of noxious bacteria and germs, harmful to eggs, larvae and inducing infections with the fish. You can manage that with planted aquaria, but also you can produce quite the contrary conditions.
But here the difficult version of the question begins, and therefore I finish. (But we can and must discuss that!)Excellent reply by Martin. I cannot tell it better.
But I can affirm everything, especially his observations on the relative pH-stabiliy. Just contrary to the general opinion the low pH is rather stable in my small Parosphromenus-tanks, too. But one should observe three things: very low conductivity, presence of organic materials that add humine substances, and restriction to plants which make use of nutrients that are solved in the water without having a great chemical activity (that is, for instance, floating Ceratopteris. A tank which is planted heavily in the conventional way may contain too many plants that influence the pH. Ceratopteris or Javamoss seems to be ideally suited for our purposes. A few others will not damage the system).Chip, before answering to your questions I have some questions myself:
1. Are you sure it’s deissneri? The males with a lanceolate caudal fin with black filament? Most fish called like this are not. Compare our portrait of deissneri.
2. Are you sure that you have males and females?
3. If you have: Are you sure they belong to the same species?
4. Are you sure that the fish are at least nine months old?
5. What are the water parameters? The temperature is of minor interest.
6. Are you really sure they feed on “fine flakes”? I have never seen licorice gouramis taking other than live foods (with the exception of frozen live food which I do not recommend)?
7. How big and how vivacious/brisk/vivid are those Danios?
8. Where do you live?
I am interested in your answers; I need them to reply myself finally.Again, it’s not a rack-setup in the strong sense, it’s a former book-shelf-setup. My main array of 12-liter-tanks, with the small side looking to the front.
Three of my small tanks, designed as “lamps” at the side of a sitting-place.
(Well – it’s not a rack set-up! I shall show that in the next mail.)The fish shown at your photo above is not deissneri; it may be bintan or something relative to bintan.
Hiroyuki Kishi told us some weeks ago that he found “the third species” on Bangka. But it is not clear what it is, nr have I seen any photo.That’s all very nice and fine, flowing water, just as in the native streams and peat bogs of our Parosphromenus fish.
But what is with the very young fry? I should ask especially Lisbeth, but the others too. Of course you can arrange a water movement, more or less, but isn’t it mainly thought from the perspective of the adult fish? They may breed very well, but do the young survive? In my opinion this will only work with bubble filters.
In my small tanks it’s impossible to copy your technical arrangements. But sometimes I have 30 or even 50 young growing up there.
Lisbeth, Helene, Bennie: If your fish “look so happy” with all that, how do you recognize that? I cannot imagine by the number of the young…
I generally use very small 12-liter-tanks and no aeration and no filters. So, there is still-water in my tanks. My fish are mostly healthy and spawn, but I know – of course – that they come from small rivers with floating waters. Only exceptionally, in nature one finds some in still water bodies. But I hate the noise of bubble filters and try to make things as easy as possible. All rotary pumps that I know of are too big for my small tanks. Therefore I have a problem.
I think it certainly would be better to have the water slowly moving, but I do not know how to achieve that. If there would exist very small rotary pumps, at best even battery-driven in order to avoid the necessity of electric cables, that would be my choice. Is there somebody who knows something like that?
As long as I do not know a solution that fits my conditions, my fish have to be satisfied with that still-water tanks. It seems to work rather well. But I feel a bit unwell by it, I admit …Bennie’s problem is one thing, the dominance of male fish in the pet shops another. In this case it is simply the result of the fact that male Parosphromenus are more attractive than females. The local catchers catch more males than females, already, because they are more attractive. The export companies sell more males than females for the same reason. More than once I saw tanks full of freshly imported Parosphromenus consisting nearly of males only, hundreds of fish. They do not bother thinking of such strange people as we are who try to breed the fish they sell. Aquarium fish are “ornamental fish”, fish to be kept as long as they live (or one is pleased by them), and then die. Then you buy new ones. Breeding is a pastime fitting with guppies or some barbs or labyrinths easy to be kept, not with Parosphromenus. We are exotic creatures trying to propagate them; for people with the intention of selling fish this is contra-productive. (Well, I exaggerate a bit …).
There is no such sexual onesidedness in nature. It’s the selection starting from the catch already and propagating itself through the tanks of exporter-importer-pet shop.
Bennie’s problem is different from that. I have to admit that I really don’t know the proper explanation.Thank you for permission to use the picture of the female. Please, send it without signature to Helene. We shall name you as author in the text accompanying it.
Well, and your egg-eating problem? I hope he will learn to behave. Jörg Vierke once demonstrated in a little video that fish have to learn many things; so let’s be confident.Hendrik:
1. Are you sure that the male eats the eggs? There could be different reasons for eggs disappearing (snails or other “robbers”, bad fertilization, …).
2. Sometimes males eat eggs. This is often encountered with young males/pairs; normally they will learn the right behaviour in some time.
3. In the case of several pairs of parvulus with all eggs disappearing overnight Horst Linke gave the advice to reduce the pH drastically (from 6 or more to 4 or less). Indeed, that was helpful! But I do not think that this is the method to be followed with filamentosus. They do not need such very low pH.
4. I should say the same as Helene: wait and see. A good young pair will spawn frequently. The most probable thing is that they will learn.
5. It is surely very rare that a male will never learn. Once I had that impression, but I do not know exactly. Maybe it was my interpretation.
6. Nice pictures! Helene: I suggest to put the photo of the female additionally to the others at the bottom of the species-text on filamentosus with the following description: displaying female during courtship, with “sexy eyes”, dark dorsal and analy fins and light body withou any stripes. Photo: H. Wimmer
I hope that you will allow that, Hendrik?[quote=”Christian Hinz” post=49](…) it would be astonishing that the species Parosphromenus bintan with a very large distribution area (meantime we know about bintan like types from Sumatra, Riau Archipel, south and west Borneo and Westmalaysia) don’t develop local forms.[/quote]
Yes, that is certainly true. Or in other words: It is highly probable that such a widespread species has developed quite some variations in isolated regions of its home range.
But one can formulate another question: P. bintan was described as the first species of many similar species. At the time of it’s description we all were not convinced that there are so many similar species. Today, the picture has changed completely. Would the describer describe bintan the same way if he had to do (or to revise?) it nowadays? Would he freely ascribe such a widespread distribution to a single species? Meanwhile he is and we are convinced that Parosphromenus-species have generally or mostly a much more limited distribution. Therefore I think that the status of bintan must probably be questioned fundamentally. At least the hypothesis of its widespread ocurrence.
Bennie, your report is very puzzling indeed. There seems to be no rule, except: The sex-ratio is not dependant from different water-values. But scientific experiments have shown: it is. Only on a statistical level, however.
So, my explanation for your puzzling experience is: your numbers are too low. If you breed extensively, only growing-up a few offspring, you will never reach a level of statistical relevance. Low pH or a high degree of humine material does not guarantee you only or many males, vice versa with females, it only increases the statistical probability of having males (vice versa for females). Maybe that your 50:50-success with linkei was due to the fact that this spawn was more numerous than others (which is often the case with linkei). Therefore, in case of intensive breeding the statistical forecast should be more secure than in the case of extensive bred small spawns. Here, the outcome may seemingly refute that statistics, but factually it doesn’t. It only shows that you did not reach the level of statistical significance.
Well, I am not sure. This is only my attempt to explain your puzzling experience.I very much welcome Zahar Zakaria as member of our renewed project! He logged in some days ago. Zahar: is it correct that you live no longer in Trengganu but near Kuala Lumpur now? That is the rumours I heard from Horst Linke.
I can agree, my P. pahuensis are rather secretive, too. Just similar to P. sumatranus. They always were the most secretive and shy licorice gouramis in my tanks.
But the pahuensis used always a small cave made from clay. Well: always? Maybe they spawned behind plant leaves, too, but I haven’t got notice about that.
Are there other experiences? Can anyone tell the same?
