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Zahar, could you estimate how much peat bog primeval forest – compared with the original quantity of the northern Selangor forest reserve, taken as 100% – is still there in unspoiled condition: 50%, or more, or less? And what will the future be in that region? More destruction, or not? Will P. harveyi possibly survive?
Did I read correctly: “80 tanks”? I have 34, and that is quite a lot already. But 80? Who will be able to treat and care for them? You?
Wouldn’t it be better to have – say 20 or 25 of this small size and a further 20 or thirty of a bigger size to raise the young? And where are your buyers who will go on with them?
It’s the quantity which I do not understand.For what aims? What consequences?
Zahar, where did you get your harveyi from? Did you catch them yourself? The classic habitat (Selangor) ist partly destroyed now altough it was a natural reserve. But there should be remnants of primeval swamp forest still containing that fine species found by Barbara and Allan Brown in the nineties.
Very good, Zahar, to meet you again, see your equipment and know you are breedig allani now. This is a nice species hat we lost for several times; let’s try to keep them now for a long time.
Very good photos, showing typical Paro-tanks. There could be less numerous caves, smaller ones and more wood, but in principle these pictures show us the typical Paro-tank.
Ghia, to begin with your first sentence. The crypt species you mention are not “recommended” to stand the conditions of Paro-tanks, but – indeed – they need similar conditions. However, there is a very remarkable difference: They live in slowly s t r e a m i n g waters at special places only. At these places there are constant nutrient flows from the bottom; they do not exist on other places.
Up to now we are unable to cultivate these species under submersed conditions, that is: in an aquarium. If we cultivate them it is in an emersed way in a special soil, mainly composed from beech litter.
What does that mean? It means that in a tank with stagnant water it is impossible (up to now) to cultivate plants that require both: a stable very acid water near pure H2O, but a constant flow of special nutrients from their roots. If you move yor water (by a filter or by air) this is not the same; up to now we are incapable to imitate that nutrient flow and nevertheless keep the water surrounding the leaves with that extremely low content of minerals and that low pH (often 4 or less) that both is necessary for them. Therefore we try to cultivate such species under emersed conditions (and even that is a compromise).
To put it in other words: The structure of the aquarium is not suitable for the submersed cultivation of these crypt species (as pallidiveria, fusca etc). But remember: Our Paros do not occur on such places where they grow but on places mostly without any submersed plants. There maybe quite amounts of riparian grasses, wood, old leaves, but nearly no sumersed aquatic plants. Why? Because they cannot stand these extreme conditions.
What you are thinking about is an old dream of some aquarists: the underwater garden in a tank; but that is o u r dream, it’s not the reality of the habitats in nature.
I cannot recommend to you other crypts as suitable because they need other conditions than the Paros. Of course, you can try C. affinis, but it favours much harder waters less acid. Or you can use Sri Lanka-crypts (as wendtii or willisii) but it’s the same with them. They will live for some weeks, but kept under the conditions of our Paros they will eventually get weaker and die.
So, your idea – take those species that occur on places with very pure water and a very low pH – is allright in the first moment, but it is not if you think further: You cannot provide that nutrient flowing milieu for them that they need without destroying the stability of the Paro-milieu.
I shall not exclude that somebody manages to find a “third way”, but it wil be a compromise not ideal for the Paros and not ideal for those crypts. (By the way: In Europe, we have some crypt-specialists who cultivate some of those species, under emersed conditions). In the aquarium trade they are not to be found, and will not be in future, for the reasons mentioned. They are not suitable for cultivation under the conditions of aquarium tanks.
Rafael, we need no pictures. These fish are certainly not deissneri. P. deissneri has up to now never been traded. Of course, there may be one first, but it is entirely unlikely. There are no commercial fish-cathcers working on the island of Bangka, and deissneri is endemic on Bangka. We must fetch this fine species some day anew from there ourselves. The trade will not do it for us. They will go on to call all Parosphromenus “deissneri” still for years to come …
The greyish colour indicates that the larvae have hatched; they hatch depending on temperature after 24 hours at the latest. Then they look like somewhat longish eggs, but the care of the male indicates that everything is allright. Meanwhile the tails of the lavae must be recognizable and probably have changed the colour to a more blackish appearance.
Non-fertilized eggs soon became stuck with funghi an will be picked out by the caring father fish. This is the reason why he does it and why we are nearly never successful by a full-artificial care without the male fish. This would mean constant supervision by a looking-glass over days and the picking out of the damaged eggs one after one by hand and a pair of tweezers. The male immediately stops caring the eggs or the young if something has went wrong. As long as he does not do this, everything is allright.
Things begin to work. I think, we did a step forward. We might step out of our financial problems as the fees for the provider etc. are concerned. Please, members, go on like this. It helps to stabilize our project!
Rafael, very good indeed. This brings us forward a big leap.
But it is difficult to draw the right conclusions from this, conclusions that are possible to be realized with hobbyists. But if they are not, we should draw other conclusions: Which species or forms should we think of in the first row when a museum or zoo is willing to cooperate with us? With other words: Perhaps you could give us a list of the most endangered species/forms (endangered from your evaluation point of view). That is, a list arranged in the succession of priority as our stock situation is concerned.
Go on, Rafael, it’s good!
The first photo of the destroyed peat swamp is very valuable. We have such photos too few. We need them for the new book on Parosphromenus that we planned at the meeting in Hamburg!
The other photos are valuable too. Nice to see you, Peter and Michael trying your best.Lawrence, very good, but please try a further photo without the stripes (= with full display colouring) and one together with the female. We would need that for the new Parobook that was planned at the Hamburg meeting.
[quote=”Ekona” post=5299]:) A close examination of the first photo reveals that Lawrence’s finger is not actually touching the water and therefore he did not actually sample it :whistle: . I think this is because he knows that using the sensory method, one must guzzle and swill one liter of the sample solution at least 5 times to get an accurate reading – given the looks of the peat swamp water :S, I cannot say I blame him for the slightly diminished sampling technique :lol:.[/quote]
Exactly, Lawrence, that is it! You could test the method at home by guzzling and swilling your aquarium waters. But don’t touch the water with xour finger afterwards! It will work only with an inch or so distance between finger-tip and water-surface! And of course: You must try ever and ever again. In the end you will be able to dismiss your electronic equipment altogether.
I should like to thank Peter, Lawrence and Jungle Mike for this fine report in pictures and Texts. Please put some of this into the ASIAN-forum, too (slightly changed, otherwise it would not be accepted).
But now some vital points:
1. Although I very much congratulate you for you success in the allani-case at Sibu location, I wonder what happened during the last years. The result of Christian Hinz’ travel about six or seven years ago was quite the opposite. He caught many male and female P. spec. aff. allani (= spec. Lundu or spec. Sungai Stunggang) but only two or three male allani at Sibu. Which location is the most endangered one?
2. From the viewpoint of our stock this is fine, because Bernd Bussler (who received all the fish of Hinz after his retirement) has quite a large stock of Sungai Stunggang, but the nice “original” allani was missing in our stock since Linke’s last trip about ten years ago. Therefore: fine result, now allani is back, one of the most beautiful Paros I ever had. And you can get the other form via Bernd; he has enough offspring.
3. Good to see Peter Beyer standing deeply submerged in the water; that gives an impression both of the deepness of this river and the difficulty of catching these fish at the riparian border in the thicket of grasses.
4. And it’s impressive to see how soft that waters are! Lawrence said that Peter should tell us how he measured the pH. And, Peter, how do you did?
5. In have necer been there myself. Since the beginning of the looking for Paros in Sarawak, there are always only these two locations named. Are there really no others left that would be worthwhile to be investigated? Of course, the eastern parst are probably too hilly or montaineous, but what about the more western parts? We learn that the deforestation progressed very fast over there. Or is the travelling situation so difficult that one is unable to reach other parts of the landscape?
Well, compliments to the three of us. And I echo Bill: Nice to see Jungle Mike. We all love his photos, but we have seldom seen himself!
Everything allright, but you should never forget the fundamental problem with Oodinium: In the very first stages it is not to be seen at all. The infection starts before you can see it. That’s the difficulty to react in time. When Oodinium is clearly to be seen, it can often be too late already , especially with the old medicines (methylene-blue and so on). F r e s h (!) 2-amino-5-nitrothiazole, that light yellow powder (if it has become brownish, you can throw it away), often works a bit later, still, but you always should act as early as possible. The linkeis we have seen in the pictures before may (!) well show an early stadium of Oodinium without clearly visible small spots, a tinge of strange pale skin only. But then it must develop into the typical appearance of Oodinium with a week or so. If it doesn’t, it’s not Oodinium. If it does, it could be a little late for a treatment, at least for some individuals. We shall see.
