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[quote=”Sverting” post=1648]It’s in Czech Republic, so I can;t really say.[/quote]
Ah, sorry, Sverting – I confused the fish dealers. The link I posted is one of the suppliers my local fish dealer get his fish from. I saw his stock list and thought: Oh, that’s what Sverting posted ……….. Sorry, obviously too many links in my head ………
Hi, Sverting,
they now offer “Parosphromenus deissneri” (what else? :whistle:) on their latest stock list. Are you able to take a look, or is it only mail order business?
It’s a very interesting thread – thank you, Sverting, for posting the link to the article on “seriouslyfish”.
I keep all my fish at room temperature – this means, at around 21°C water temperature in winter – in summer it increases to about 26°C. No filters, only additional light during the darker months/hours of day. At night the temperature drops to 19°C in winter, that’s the minimum water temperature I noticed.
I keep Dario dario, Pseudosphromenus dayi, Badis kanabos and Badis singenensis, Boraras maculatus and B. brigittae and Danio margaritatus at these temperatures – and my new P. nagyi too. Dario, the Badis species and Danio bred (and still breed) successfuly, the Pseudosphromenus are still young, but already spawning. I’ve also seen the Paros spawning – it might still have been sham pairings, but still!
I am convinced my fish are doing quite well with these temperatures.
Hi, Bartian,
thank you for the feedback!
I haven’t bought Black Worms there yet ……… I think I should try it …
How do you keep them, actually?
I also would like to thank for the sufficient informations!
But – to come back to one of the first posts here in this thread – as I remember the question was not:
Which plants can be used in a paro aquarium AND come from the original habitats of Parosphromenus –
but: Which plants can principally be used in a paro tank, which plants can stand the water conditions – no matter were they come from. In general – not confined to the habitats of paros.[quote=”seascient” post=1576]In my humble opinion, the closer to natural we can get the better the results.Also, remember that naturally derived acids(eg. tannic) address overall water condition and not just pH. —thanks[/quote]
Yes, I would also prefer the most natural way to acidify water.
But vinegar to me still doesn’t seem to be the most natural way. The water in paro habitats gets it’s special conditions by seeping and trickling through dead plant material on the forest grounds. So for me the next idea to using peat was to try in which way water is affected by bark. I steeped pure pine bark (which I normally use as orchid soil) in rain water. After a week the conductivity hadn’t changed, but the ph-level went from 6 to 5. This effect lasts for a few weeks. This pine bark is very clean and dry – I haven’t tried it with the (in most cases) wet and decaying bark chips which are sold as “bark mulch”.But clean or not – I think acidifying water by using bark comes closer to natural than using vinegar ………..
[quote=”Peter Finke” post=1571]Jordy, your plant list must be commented upon in many respects. I confine myself to
“crypto soorten”: Most commonly used aquarium crytos are Sri Lanka species. They live in water totally different than that for Paros. It is a science of its own to develop a method of keeping those fish together with cryptos of the black waters. It is nearly impossible, a matter of different structure. Better, you leave cryptos out.[/quote]Peter, I often read about your total refusal of using cryptos in paro tanks. Your argument is that most species live in completely different water conditions.
I think it is a lost chance not to try it with some crypto species. There are lots of informations about plants in the internet, and you can find out which species might fit. Here, for example.I keep Cryptocoryne undulata and C. walkeri in the tanks I use for my paros or which are in preparation. They are recommended for a ph-level from 5 upwards. They look very well, at least after keeping them for some months. If they would suffer from the wrong water conditions, they wouldn’t look that healthy.
I think you should think even beginners capable for chosing the right plants ……….Even with no ground layer you can plant them in small pots, using fertilizer balls which only release their components into the immediate root area. I currently try this with Blyxa japonica – were the limiting factor is not the ph-level, but the light. I put it in the brightest spot in the tank – up to now it looks fine.
I also keep Hygrophila difformis (which has been a wrong delivery) – I clamped it in a holder adhered to one side of the tank, and it lets it’s roots grow freely. It is said to remove nitrates just as well as Ceratopteris does.
I think some plants are worth a try and we shouldn’t refuse this from the first. There’s enough information on the web, and it’s not true that most plants offered for the aquarium trade need ph-levels of 6 at the minimum. There are many plants which fit to levels around 5, and what you have to do is find plants within this range which need only little light.
I additionally restrict my search to plants from the Asian region – but that’s a matter of purism.I know about “good” and “bad” bacteria, of course.
But I think that water, cloudy with bacteria (no matter if good or bad), is not comparable to those waters described from paro’s natural habitats.
Despite it’s tea-brown or even darker colour the natural water is said to be cristal clear. For me this is the measure.[quote=”bartian” post=1562]Yes, but bacterial growth is not necessarily bad.
Now that you are saying it, how did you measure the number of bacteria?[/quote]
It was not me who made the experience ………. as I wrote I found it in German forums.
They reported a strong, milky cloudiness after a few days.
And as I understand the text on water in paro tanks here a severe bacteria load is to be avoided:
The biological function of these low pH values is not yet fully understood, but it is likely that it mainly is to suppress harmful bacteria which may attack the eggs of the fish. In fact, the bacterial load in highly acidic water is much lower than in less acidic or even alkaline water.
[quote=”bartian” post=1555]
My only fear was there problably are bacteria or other microorganisms that use acetic acid for food. Still not clear if these live in aquariums too.
Apparently everyone knows vinegar is useless but nobody can tell why… [/quote]I thought I answered this already …..
What I found is that the bacterial flora will increase within a few days, because the extremely short-chained organic acids of vinegar are easily to be consumed by bacteria.
This was the experience made with vinegar in aquariums …… no question that the bacteria must have been there ………
I find it an interesting question and thus tried to find out something more in German forums.
What I found is that the bacterial flora will increase within a few days, because the extremely short-chained organic acids of vinegar are easily to be consumed by bacteria.
I’m afraid – an increase of bacteria in our water is not what we want……
I think, if we have parameters from the locality of C. simoni – as given in the link I posted – of ph 5,2, 6gh 1kh / 62 µS – it’s without doubt soft, acidic water they prefer, and nothing else. Additionally, they are observed to live together with C. fernandoi, which like to hide in leaf litter and peat – this is also a clear hint for a similar habitat as for some paros. Not brackish water – by no means!
And I think it is not a matter of costs to decide if we try keeping paros and these shrimp together ……… It’s not my attitude to pit the risk of losing animals against the price I paid for them ……. Life itself has absolutely the same value for every creature, no matter what prize we pay for it ….
There is another species, C. fernandoi, mentioned as being often found living together with C. s. simoni. It is told that they can mostly be found among the leaf litter on the ground of the locality – and that they also hide among peat and leaves in the aquarium.
These shrimp species seem to come near to that what we are looking for – in my opinion.[quote=”Peter Finke” post=1515]
Besides, the informations that are given by the shrimp-lovers are ambivalent and partly wrong. They concentrate fully on their shrimps (as we do on our Paros) and are not interested in their capacity to tolerate extreme water conditions but to describe the ideal conditions for them. So the conclusion is as I said before: We do not have the right shrimps up to now. If some tolerate our values it’s a matter of compromise.[/quote]I don’t disagree with you in the matter that many “recommendations” of hobby enthusiasts (regardless of whether fish or shrimps)are to be taken with a grain of salt … 😉
But some information pages in the web seem to contain valuable advices. E.g., here water values from the locality are given ……. that’s why I think that the Sri Lanka dwarf shrimp might be worth a try. I am much more concerned by the also mentioned possibility of the shrimp being spawn consumers ……..As you can see from my pictures in the corresponding thread, I keep White Pearl shrimp (Neocaridina cf. zhangjiajiensis var. white) with my P. nagyi.
They are said to tolerate a ph-level around 6,0 – so I tried it. They now live in water with a ph-level of around 5,5 – and they do quite well.
I keep different kinds of freshwater shrimps in all my tanks with different fish species – and I highly appreciate them. They do a lot to keep the tanks clean – and if they are doing well, they are very reproductive ………. and the young provide a good food for anabantoids and blue perches.
Another shrimp species which is said to tolerate a low ph-level of about 5,2 is the Sri Lanka dwarf shrimp, Caridina s. simoni. I do not keep them yet because they are infrequently on offer – but I aim to buy some as soon as possible.
