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Thank you both!!
I’ll try again with the video first showing the displaying female P. qindecim. Maybe it works with a link to a Picasa web album.
At the beginning it’s the female showing exactly the same courtship display as normally shown by the male.
After she has dived down under the leaves, the male responds with his own display.I can not withstand the temptation to post some more P. quindecim pictures ….
First a photo which again shows the strong colouration of the female during courtship display:
I have a small video I wanted to show you, of the female showing full courtship display like a male. But I’m afraid the upload to YouTube doesn’t work … 🙁
Male in full display:
Two pictures of a young P. nagyi Pekan Nenasi male which is sharing the tank with a dominant male and thus showing no full male colouration:
Hello, Helene,
I am still working through the threads of the past months – so please excuse if some of my posts come a bit late :blush:
I hope it’s still convenient to post some photos here …………….
One more picture of an adult P. rubrimontis cf. Mimbon 2008 male:
And one of a young male:
[quote=”pol_de_gezzzmol” post=4279]
In the tank of the paro’s there are also a lot of shrimp, I believe these shrimp do live in the same biotope as the paro’s. And I hope these shrimp can be an additinal food source for the paro’s. [/quote]Welcome to the forum, Frederik!
What water values do you have in your tank? I tried to keep shrimp in my paro tanks and made the experience that they only survive at pH-levels above 5,0. As soon as my pH-level was around 4,5 the shrimp vanished.
The plants in your tank give me the impression that your pH is not that low …………[quote=”Bernd Bussler” post=4258]Now the mediator asks beforehand from a certain background knowledge and are only my address free and the interested party can contact me and gets his wish animals. I would also request background knowledge that would take time demanding that I could spend meaningful with my fish rather than sitting at the computer for hours and now I’m very happy times indeed. :woohoo:[/quote]
My experience with a mediator is such that I would rather try to contact breeders by myself. I’m sorry.
I am member of the project since 2012, and I have got one single breeder address via the then mediator. In the meantime I have received every paro (and even Betta) species this breeder breeds ……… and I have had no success in getting further contact to breeders of other species via the mediator, although I asked. It was luck already to even get an answer …… Also, I have never been contacted by the mediator because possibly another project member showed interest in my fish.
I actually need some females of different species (had more male than female offspring), but would not like to get fish of the same breeders again – because it’s always the same breeding line from the same parents. This also can not be the aim of breeding paros – to have a shrinking genetic diversity due to inbreeding and inbreeding.
And I would like to keep maybe a paro species new to me ……….. I find it inconvenient to first write to a mediator, who then (after weeks and months, in my experience) gives me a phone number of a member on the other side of the republic without telling me which species this breeder keeps, and without knowing whether this breeder is willing to ship his fish. THIS results in too many emails – and is annoying if it doesn’t lead to a successful mediation.And I as a breeder myself would prefer to talk things over with an interested person by myself – not with a mediator I don’t know, who doesn’t know me, and with whom I have to talk things over – and then the same again with the breeder ………………How easy, if I could see in your profile “oh, Bernd has some P. spec. to give away”. I can think about whether I can keep this special species and so on, and then place my request. You know me from the forum (and if not – the mediator doesn’t know me, too – he also would be no help for you).
No – my experience with the mediator business is none too good …………..[quote=”Bernd Bussler” post=4245]I’ve got more versions add a comment about Stefanie.
I bekome stomach pain on this topic. If we can sell a mediator without the animals there is a possibility that a few try to take advantage of the have too many animals tightened some breeders and do not know where to put it. Would you buy stocks and sell.
Also, I would like to receive as a breeder not hundreds of emails with merchant.
I breed Paros and do not have time to answer 100 emails every day. [/quote]I do not have the impression that you got the suggestion right ………… How can you think about getting hundreds of emails?? If you tell only us, here in the forum (not visible for anyone who is no member of the project) about which species of paro you can actually give away – how could it be that you get hundreds of mails?? You would probably get an email from, e.g., me “hello, Bernd, I just read that you have some P. ….. to give away, I would be rather interested in two pairs …” – where is the problem for you? You would only get requests from interested members of the project – not from any merchants, because your profile is not visible for non-members.
[quote=”Bernd Bussler” post=4243]So this idea I do not think so good, that has something more of a sales platform. We want to reach the seriously want to breed, not the ones that sell the animals for “lot of money”, [/quote]
No, Bernd, I think you got the aims of those who propagate the possibility to offer their offspring here at the forum completely wrong.
It really offends me to read your assumption that we want to “sell the animals for a lot of money” to whomever. Fact is that some have a real lot of young paros – and no one is ever contacted via the project’s distribution to give some of their paro offspring to interested persons. And the other way round – in my experience it is not very effective to try to get paro offspring of other members via the distribution service. So the idea is to reach those paro enthusiasts ourselves – to offer what can be given away via the project, at the same prices which are agreed for the forum – 15 €/pair. And to maybe find someone who is willing to give away some of his offspring to members of the forum. I am really annoyed by your assumption that this is a way to make money using a selling platform!I personally put the aims of the project in question – just because I experience myself and hear from others that we happily breed paros – to at last sit there with a lot of offspring and no interested persons. And we do not breed paros to have lots of offspring in crowded tanks, do we?
So – what’s wrong with saying what paro species you could give away – only here, in the forum, only readable for members? If this leads to a better distribution of young fish between the members of the forum – well, that’s one of the aims of the project, isn’t it?
I really don’t like to be addressed as someone who randomly distributes valuable fish to make “lots of money” – just making a suggestion to better distribute our offspring within the project.[quote=”Peter Finke” post=4237] Telling the real name, the town and the actual stock is for some people not attractive but the exact contrary. [/quote]
Is it necessary to tell the real name and living place on the internet? I think it would be sufficient to be contactable via PN. All you need to announce is your stock which is ready to be given away to interested members. Personal data can be exchanged via PN.
[quote=”Peter Finke” post=4237]Such a new feature will not replace the regular half-annual census. [/quote]
I think that has never been the aim of those who would appreciate such a new profile column. Additional to the census – not instead of it. The census in my eyes has another focus than being a trading floor.
[quote=”Peter Finke” post=4237]That is to say, the new feature will be a complement and supplement, but nothing more. I think it could be a nice, useful supplement, but it will not be the ideal solution to one of our most difficult problems: how to get searchers for Paros and breeders of Paros together. For this aim, we need a diversity of methods. The new feature will work only then when a breeder is willing to use it. But I know many who will not do so even if I beg them to do. Nevertheless, they c o u l d. This makes it worthwhile to get it online.[/quote]
For those who are eager to use it it will be a great improvement – as a matter of fact this will be those of us who use the forum and made their suggestions in the forum.
One personal remark: I know that there are some successful breeders who have never shown up in this forum. I do not quite understand them ……… to join a project like this, which is meant to be international and can only be international by being on the internet, means to be willing to contribute to the preservation, reproduction and the distribution of these endangered little fish. Therefore – not to use a forum like this to spread their experience and knowledge and to find interested people to distribute their paro offspring to, seems rather counterproductive to me. Sitting in an ivory tower, contactable only by a few hand-picked persons, in my eyes is not the way to successfully contribute to the complete aims of the project. No offense – only my personal thoughts……………..
[quote=”7 Zwerge” post=4231]Hello again!
An idea: could we have a place in our profile, where (who wants) can write the actual stock?
[/quote]Dorothee, I appreciate this idea very much! And exactly in the way Peter suggests:
These necessary informations for all of us could be: forum name/clear name/country/town/species ready for distribution, approx. number/personal collection only or readiness for shipping, too
That’s what I suggested more than a year ago at the beginning of this thread – but my idea was to give these informations with the census report.
But the idea to add a special column to our profile (to be filled in or not ….for those who don’t want to expose themselves even in a forum restricted to members only) seems to be much better:- It will also be restricted to members of the paro project only,
- the great advantage over the distribution via the census report is the possibility to keep it up-to-date by yourself – daily, if needed, not only twice a year with the census report
- even if you are not actually looking for some new paros it is interesting to see who successfully breeds which species
Unfortunately, it was impossible for me to take part in the latest census in autumn 2014 due to health restrictions. So now there are no data about my fish for one complete year – Spring 2014 til spring 2015. A profile column with your recent stock and offspring ready to be distributed would be a great improvement!
I have some experience with that. I have divided 25 liter tanks into two – so I have two 12,5 l sections. And I have divided a 54 liter tank into three – so now I have 3 sections of about 18 liters.
I can clearly say that the water is much better in the bigger tank. The water in my smaller single tanks of about 12 and 18 liters and in the 25 liter tank divided into two has almost the same parameters: pH around 4,3 and a conductivity of about 48 µS.
Same intervals of water changes – the water in the bigger divided tank of 54 liters has the same pH of about 4,3, but a conductivity of only 21 µS.Deepin peat’s advice is right – and I have yet another reason for even keeping only the same species in these divided sections: The partitions are not tight, and they are not wanted to be tight – because of the advantage of the greater overall water volume. The water is desired to diffuse between the single sections. And I have experienced that also very young fry diffuse between the single sections. We don’t want to mingle fry of different species, don’t we? So I would not recommend to keep different species in neighbouring divisions of one large tank.
In my divided 54 liter tank I have my P. quindecim – eldest pair in the left section, younger pair in the right section – and their offspring in the middle.
[quote=”helene” post=4033]
And then I am just thinking, – perhaps, as we know, – it could happen that fish caught from two or more small localities are just put into one bag and exportet as such, – and perhaps when I bought mine, there were more ‘species’ or variants, and perhaps this can explain the stage behaviour ? The non interest in spawning behaviour.[/quote]I know that my answer comes late but I would like to say something to this assumption.
I don’t believe that belonging to different species or variants results in no interest in courtship or spawning behaviour.
I observed instant courting in the following “combinations”:
– pahuensis female and rubrimontis male
– quindecim male and female of unknown species, supposedly belonging to the harveyi-group (surely not quindecim!)
– nagyi male and female of unknown species, supposedly belonging to the harveyi-groupAt least pahuensis and quindecim are so different from other species like rubrimontis that I saw the immediate courtship behaviour with really great surprise. This corresponds to the explanations Peter gave: Paro “species” are very young in evolutionary terms – and in my opinion only persist by being geographically separated. As soon as natural barriers are removed, the “species” will mingle and produce new forms.
So I think that belonging to different forms is not the reason for the disinterest in spawning behaviour of your fish.
