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[quote=”helene” post=4128]Hi Stephanie, good to see you back, been wondering where you were :)[/quote]
Thank you, Helene!
(OT: Again, I had to stay in hospital for a while. But then, after my recovery – I have to admit it, I’m deeply sorry but it’s true – my attention was occupied by other animals than fish …… I built a henhouse all by myself and now proudly own 5 hens and a rooster :silly: . OT off)[quote=”hachge” post=4068].They need to be full of water and not wrapped in paper to work properly.In expedition to collect fish I found these bags very useful.[/quote]
Hello to all of you,
I am just trying to catch up on my long absence from the forum and am actually reading the most recent threads.
I also have a small lot of Kordon breathing bags here in my drawers – but I always hesitated to use them transporting paros. I think that the fact that the breathing bags have to be completely filled with water makes them useless for paro transports. Like Peter said before, paros use their labyrinth if necessary, in case of distress. Now – they can’t come to the surface and breathe in atmospheric air in a completey filled breathing bag…… and I am afraid that this will at least make them panic. So using these bags we would have to not fill it completely – which spoils the advantage ………
[quote=”Deepin peat” post=3737]I think that even if we get close to 10 Euros for one fish it is not a problem. I would guess in Germany and everywhere else in western Europe any common Apistogramma would be the same price or more and most people would buy 1-2 pairs of Paros so I would not be scared that people who look for Paros as such would not pay that price for healthy and nice fish without risking issues with weakened and damaged specimens from direct imports.[/quote]
I definitely agree. I’m surely not made of money but 10 Euro for a fish including transport sounds good ……….. for example I have already bought two pairs of paros for 30 Euro (the agreed price at the project for a pair of paros here in Germany is 15 Euro) – plus 30 Euro for transportation by a special animal carrier. Makes 15 Euro per fish ………….
Thank you, Peter, for your answer.
Of course I wasn’t aware of these nuisances in the background ………. I had only short contact to the first contact person you mentioned, before he became ill – and it’s him whom I owe all my paros which I got from one single breeder (the only successful contact I got via the distribution of the paro project).
My experience with the second person was as you described – I didn’t dare to say it as explicit as you did now, you having much more background informations than I have.I understand the importance of this contact person you describe – so if certain breeders need to be treated with velvet gloves and don’t want to mix with ordinary people – ok, to each their own. I hope the project will find another convenient and sociable person who is able to fulfill this special task with the instinct required.
But, yes – for us simple folks 😉 – please discuss the possibility of establishing an exchange topic for project members at this forum.
One thing I would like to say: No, speaking for me – we are not only interested in the widespread, more common species. But being excluded from contacts to the “special breeders” we are doomed to get only the common species (which are offered by the commercial trade sometimes). It’s one aspect – to distribute your own (common) offspring into good hands. But speaking for me – I now have all the species offered by this one single breeder I mentioned above. And I was not able to get any further contact to other breeders via the project’s distribution – so I am not able to get other species than those commercially traded. The fact that I have no rare species doesn’t mean that I don’t want them ………. But the way it is now at the project, “common people” are as good as excluded from the exchange of rarer species.
And I think this has contra-productive effects to the declared aims of the project.In my opinion a distribution based on contact persons who arrange an exchange of fish doesn’t work.
I can only speak about my own experience here at the Paro project and in other aquaristic forums. I tried to get paros via the distribution contact here in this project. I don’t want to insult those persons who are willing to make efforts to help other fish enthusiasts get the species they want. I appreciate their dedication – but I think they are as overloaded with this task as I would be myself.
My experience is that you have to wait very long until you even get an answer to your request. Several times it took weeks until I got response. Then you get maybe one email-address or phone number – without any hint about the species the contact person keeps and is maybe willing to sell. If this doesn’t lead to an exchange of fish – you recoil from starting the same procedure again to maybe get another breeder’s address.
Don’t get me wrong – I don’t want to offend the (different) persons who were kind enough to assume this task. But I think this distribution method doesn’t work. It doesn’t work in Germany – and it will certainly not work transnational.I suggest to create a “Fish exchange” topic in this forum in each geographical category. This topic should only be visible for registered members of the project – after the log-in. Here everybody who seeks or offers paros can post his offer/request. According to my experience it works very well to surmount transport difficulties once you have personal contact.
This forum topic would allow every paro project member to search for the species he wants or to offer those he can give away himself. No work for anyone else to do – just those persons who are personally interested. And an exclusion of every Tom, Dick and Harry who is not interested enough to join the project as an official member.I definitely can’t see any advantage in interposing a contact person. I plead for direct contact between those who are personally concerned – and no additional work for a third party who neither knows one of the prospects nor is involved personally.
Hello,
sometimes small amounts of Sander’s artemia are offered at e…y, like here.
I don’t know this special dealer, but I bought a similar offer last year – it’s absolutely ok, very small nauplia, a very good hatch rate.Maybe it’s worth trying?
[quote=”Bernd Bussler” post=3559]
Paros do not always come in black water before, paludicola for example, alfredi and rubrimontis occurs in clear water, and certainly a few other species. [/quote]
[quote=”Bernd Bussler” post=3559]Well, I have alfredi trapped in a large creek with clear water, I look at home if I still have a habitat photo of it. No idea whether there are also black water alfredi, but the habitat in Sedilli is clear water and rather have a small river than a creek. [/quote]Hello, Bernd,
I think these data that you give about the water parameters P. alfredi, rubrimontis and paludicola live in according to your experiences urgently need confirmation.
In the species category here on the website of the PP you can read that the type localities of alfredi and rubrimontis are blackwater habitats.P. rubrimontis:
Linke found low pH values (between 3.5 and 4.5) and an extremely low conductivity (only up to 20 micro Siemens/cm) in the original habitat, a typical black water creek, which was very dark coloured by humic substances.
It is strictly recommended for rubrimontis to see to very similar water conditions according to their original habitat. I think it might be dangerous to raise confusion about the water parameters they really need. There’s a great difference between the “clear water creeks” you report and the “very dark blackwater creek” the species description speaks of. So this needs to be clarified – for the sake of the fish.
P. alfredi:
type locality with black water of pH 4.5 to 5.0. Standard breeding conditions for Paros.
According to our species description here only P. paludicola doesn’t necessarily depend on real blackwater conditions and will not resent being kept in soft, acid clear water (but still not totally without humic substances) – due to the fact that some forms indeed are found in clear water creeks whereas others are blackwater inhabitants like almost all other paros.
Yes, she has to appease him by showing the mating colours incl. sexy eyes and a very submissive behaviour. He is very high tempered guarding his cave and will attack whatever seems suspicious. She really has to steal her way into the cave. Once inside, there’s no aggression any more 🙂
Hello,
to me your observations seems quite normal. I never counted the matings but I usually watch courtship behaviour and matings in my paros during one or two (or three?) days, too. It’s not “all done” with one single spawning. I’ve watched the female in spawning colours with sexy eyes visiting the cave very secretive, almost trying to look inobtrusive to not upset the male which was already guarding the cave. If he lets her in they mate again – if not he chases her away and she has to try again later …………
After these “mating days” she loses interest in the cave and leaves the whole business – to care for the clutch – to the male.I can not say how many eggs are produced in how many spawnings ………… I do not control the cave so closely.
Difficult question!
But I am not sure whether you can speak of P. nagyi “Kuantan” anyway – if you don’t know where they come from. I think in this case you have to say P. nagyi aff. “Kuantan” – as you already suggested. To indicate that they look like the Kuantan-form – but that you don’t know the location.
Calling them P. nagyi “Kuantan” implies that you are sure where they come from – like it would when you called them P. nagyi “Pekan Nenasi”.I think it’s like my P. rubrimontis aff. “Mimbon 2008” …………. they look like the form from Mimbon imported in 2008 – but it’s not sure if they indeed come from this location.
[quote=”ourmanflint” post=3479]It always seems to be a problem in UK shipments, about 75% males usually. I think I have maybe 3 females.[/quote]
Small comfort: Having males enables you to look for females – in most cases you now the species, having males.
I have three very fine, big females here – they will stay alone until they die because nobody is able to determine the species ………….I think it’s not that easy.
As you said in post 3432 your fish look like mine ………. and mine are not from Kuantan, but from Pekan Nenas. The one Helene showed in post 3426 is from Kuantan – and I confess I can’t see much difference ………. the coloured bands of my male seem to be broader than those of Helene’s male – but is this individual, or depending on age – or indeed a feature of a form from a special location?So you have fish which resemble P. nagyi from Kuantan OR P. nagyi from Pekan Nenas. Maybe there’s a third similar form from yet another location ……….. and that’s possibly were your fish come from ……… you’ll never know. I wouldn’t know how to name their offspring……
Hm – the Caridina indeed like fish eggs ……………. But I have offspring, at least in my quindecim tank. I now decided to put C. simoni in each paro tank, because of the big advance of keeping the tank clean. Let’s wait and see.
By the way – I have already seen my nagyi male chasing away shrimp which come too close to the cave. We should bear in mind that guarding the cave is no self purpose ………..
But I removed all other inhabitants (snails, shrimp) of their tank some time ago because I wanted to be sure why they don’t have offspring …. Now that it’s clear that the nagyi parents themselves are the threat for their fry, I will put in shrimp again.
